# How does the idea of armed guards in every school play in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903 "2012-12-23T06:32:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/61 "2012-12-24T17:25:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well considering it’s already being done at a large number of schools… Is it, or are they off-duty cops with second-jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/62 "2012-12-24T17:34:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is only one solution to stopping a shooter right now We could also look at ways to prevent people from going on shooting sprees. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/63 "2012-12-24T17:35:18Z")
If we place a full-time police officer at every single school, isn’t it only a matter of time before one of the officers goes on a shooting rampage? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/64 "2012-12-24T17:41:20Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Arming teachers is a ridiculously stupid thing to do. I was a previous teacher and it’s just a ridiculously stupid idea. It’s LAUGHABLY bad. You are practically begging for your gun to get stolen, or for other students to bring their own guns. Also… there are so many teachers who I wouldn’t trust with a gun that it’s scary. They shouldn’t be teachers either, unless the reason they shouldn’t have guns is a lack of dexterity. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/65 "2012-12-24T17:44:12Z")
> [@C3](#): > > When you say “implement this policy” - do you mean that it’s allowed? Or that it’s required? How many teachers in UT, KS and TX are actually carrying guns to school? The policy I mean is allowing teachers that have the license to carry in school. That policy is implemented in two states. As for how many teachers are carrying - I don’t know, and neither do you. That’s the whole point. You don’t know who’s carrying, so anyone can be. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/66 "2012-12-24T20:13:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The policy I mean is allowing teachers that have the license to carry in school. That policy is implemented in two states. As for how many teachers are carrying - I don’t know, and neither do you. That’s the whole point. You don’t know who’s carrying, so anyone can be. Have there been any spree killings in schools in those states since this went into effect? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/67 "2012-12-24T20:24:09Z")
A full time armed guard would be expensive as well as dangerous. I’m thinking a retired guy with a cell phone, sitting at the LOCKED entrance to a school ready to dial 911, might be a better option. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/68 "2012-12-24T20:36:37Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’m thinking a retired guy with a cell phone, sitting at the LOCKED entrance to a school ready to dial 911, might be a better option. That seems pointless. The schools already have alarm systems and the offices can easily call 911. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/69 "2012-12-24T20:41:30Z")
Morgenstern’s proposal is suggesting: - a choke point for access to the building - a locked door - an attenant for that door with the ability to summon law enforcement Some schools certainly already have that, and adding staff would be needless. Other schools probably still don’t have that, and Morgenstern appears to be suggesting that they add same. I agree with all of the above, although it doesn’t solve all potential problems. The biggest problem with Morgenstern’s notion, as mentioned in a previous post, is that lots of schools have multiple entrances; in some cases anyone in the community can walk up to a classroom door without having to pass through a single door, or even gate. That’ll require architectural work including adding a wall or good fence to remedy. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/70 "2012-12-24T20:53:28Z")
Just curious as to what people are thinking the differences would be with “armed police officers” as opposed to the already existing (in at least some schools) police officers assigned to the school as resource officers? I know in theory, the resource officer isn’t supposed to be at the school the whole day, but at my high school, we had two of them, and one of them was \*always \*there. We had two massive and territorial gangs assigned to the same school, as well as pretty consistent racial violence, and those officers were on patrol from the moment the doors opened to when the school shut down after clubs and sports practices at night. I understand that most elementary schools don’t have resource officers, and that most? upper grade schools didn’t have them, but it never bothered me that the officers were there - I was much more likely to get killed in a stampede during one of the gang fights than by police with guns in the hallways. So (other than the fact that it’s a stupid suggestion that won’t really solve anything) what is the difference between existing resource officers and the armed police/guard in every school suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/71 "2012-12-24T21:10:45Z")
**Lasciel,** it sounds like your school was out on the extreme end of the police-presence spectrum. However, it sounds like that’s what people think we need every single school in the country to be like: several police officers on campus, armed, for the entire school day, specifically to be guards, not teachers or counselors. That is signficantly different on a national level for the majority of schools, even for ones that already have a police presence. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/72 "2012-12-24T21:20:31Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > **Lasciel,** it sounds like your school was out on the extreme end of the police-presence spectrum. > > However, it sounds like that’s what people think **we need every single school in the country to be like: several police officers on campus, armed, for the entire school day, specifically to be guards, not teachers or counselors.** That is signficantly different on a national level for the majority of schools, even for ones that already have a police presence. (bolding added) Gotcha. From experience at my school, it doesn’t seem like they would be very useful against external threats BUT from my experience, they did a very good job at minimizing INTERNAL threats - they knew all the major gang-members, they stayed informed as to what students were violent or unstable, and they made a point of keeping on top of things like that - there were LOTS of fights, but no one ever brought weapons into it, because then that specific student would be out of school and unable to defend their school turf. I don’t have any problems with having police officers in schools - especially if they’re specifically assigned to one school and are tasked with trying to actually minimize or prevent violence rather than stopping it once it starts. I think that could be very useful for those particular needs. I do have problems with people thinking that police officers assigned to schools is going to make them safer from external threats. For that, I think that we have to look more at either major policy and social-opinion changes as a country, and/or we have to be very conscious of building schools from a secured-entrance standpoint with entrance checks and secured grounds and all that. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/73 "2012-12-24T21:27:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > A full time armed guard would be expensive as well as dangerous. I’m thinking a retired guy with a cell phone, sitting at the LOCKED entrance to a school ready to dial 911, might be a better option. When seconds count the police are minutes away. They DID call the police in the recent school spree shooting. Armed adults have already stopped spree killers, the media cant seem to find a way to report it. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/74 "2012-12-24T21:29:45Z")
for a message board that makes a claim it is fighting ignorance there seems to be an overabundance of it WRT gun rights issues. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/75 "2012-12-24T21:43:02Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > If your neighbor up the road is a mental case or has a history of domestic violence, I don’t want him to have a gun, mmmkay? A famous anti gun journalist from the eighties shot some teens who were trespassing, the local teens always used his pool, so he shot them,with his unregistered pistol. His name was Carl something, I want to say Ronin or Roman but I cant remember. Any our liberal hero anti gun journalist really hated that other people had guns. Lots of these anti gun liberals are the same way. They cant control their temper. They know that they will fly off the handle and shoot a teen for pushing boundaries. So they use their feverish imagination to lead themselves to think that everyone else is as unhinged as he/she is. All anti gun politcritters are protected by armed security of some sort. All people against armed adults on school grounds, whether they are self aware enough to admit it to themselves or not - want people to have to fight armed killers with their bare hands while the 911 call center records the screams of the dying. I will not give up my rights because terrified idiots scream for more bigger better Big Brother. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/76 "2012-12-24T22:07:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > A full time armed guard would be expensive as well as dangerous. I’m thinking a retired guy with a cell phone, sitting at the LOCKED entrance to a school ready to dial 911, might be a better option. Unless the children are teleported directly into the building the door has to be open when they arrive and depart. It’s cheaper in the long run to train a dozen teachers on how to use a gun and allow the weapon to remain hidden from view so they are not a target. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/77 "2012-12-24T22:16:57Z")
I’m surprised the suggestion was police (big government) and not some private security firm his friend runs (free market). And locking the doors sounds like a bad idea. Imagine everyone trying to run away from the crazed gunmen and finding a locked door. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/78 "2012-12-24T22:20:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet, two states already implement this policy and none of the horrible things you predict have come to pass. Could it be you’re wrong? Has an armed teacher ever stopped a killer - internal or external? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/79 "2012-12-24T22:30:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Has an armed teacher ever stopped a killer - internal or external? Assistant principal. > **[1997 Pearl High School shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting)** > > The Pearl High School shooting occurred on October 1, 1997, at Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi, United States. The gunman, 16-year-old 11th grade student Luke Woodham (born February 5, 1981), shot and killed two students and injured seven others at the school after killing his mother by bludgeoning at their home earlier that morning. > The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997, when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Ann Woodham, as she prepared for a... ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903/80 "2012-12-24T22:33:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Have there been any spree killings in schools in those states since this went into effect? No. There haven’t been any shootings by teachers or any stealing of teachers’ guns either, like people here are prophesizing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-idea-of-armed-guards-in-every-school-play-in-the-us/644903.md?page=5)