# How does the military's heinous actions and ESPECIALLY serving in those institutions get such a pass **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 3, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774 "2015-02-03T23:55:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/61 "2015-02-09T01:00:36Z")
> [@Phu\_Cat](#): > > Whether you like it or not, these are the courageous people that gave you the right to write such foolishness here, work where you choose, vote the way you like, hold the job you choose, etc, etc. The military is the single most important institution our government runs. Without them, all your other rights are meaningless. Defending our rights is of utmost importance because once they are gone winning them back will be nearly impossible. Or is that what you prefer? > > Phu Cat With all due respect…that’s jingoistic garbage. There are about 50 other democracies (100?) that _somehow_ manage to not lock up the greatest amount of their population, run 100’s of military bases and have the largest military budget in the world. And they’re in no danger of being overrun by…aliens? Muslims? I’m not quite sure who the boogieman is supposed to be these days? North Korea? Edit: But your first sentence, the one that I cut is pretty good. There is in fact at least one murder ruled suicide that I know of that was a big double-agent mess. The government probably could have done better for him and his family, but he was in the intelligence business. That comes with different rules. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/62 "2015-02-09T02:10:17Z")
> [@Phu\_Cat](#): > > The military is the single most important institution our government runs. Without them, all your other rights are meaningless. Defending our rights is of utmost importance because once they are gone winning them back will be nearly impossible. As a retired service member myself, I’m going to have to say that is incorrect. The single most important institution our government has is the judicial system. ---
**Author:** ![Phu\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Phu\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phu_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/63 "2015-02-09T17:52:25Z")
On one hand I can agree with that Monty. But, how much say will our judicial system have if our nation is over thrown? Phu Cat ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/64 "2015-02-09T18:05:27Z")
You’re thinking that the military is one big, homogenous mass is unfounded. The supposition that the E-4, who is trying her best to make a better life for herself while juggling deployments and taking college courses, should be held accountable for actions taken a zillion (figurative) miles away by generals and military judges is ridiculous. Overall, the military is a meritocracy, and it has gotten better (it still has a ways to go) at holding members accountable. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/65 "2015-02-09T19:54:54Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > You’re thinking that the military is one big, homogenous mass is unfounded. The supposition that the E-4, who is trying her best to make a better life for herself while juggling deployments and taking college courses, should be held accountable for actions taken a zillion (figurative) miles away by generals and military judges is ridiculous. Or worse, like others have suggested, she’s held accountable for the actions of some other E-4 half a world away who does something crazy/immoral/murderous/rapey. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/66 "2015-02-09T20:43:14Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Or worse, like others have suggested, she’s held accountable for the actions of some other E-4 half a world away who does something crazy/immoral/murderous/rapey. No one said that. The suggestion is she be held accountable for joining an organization of whom the highest brass would rather make ludicrous declarations of suicide than admit a murder took place. Or we could another route and say she should be held accountable for joining an organization that illegally invaded a sovereign country and contributed to the death of 1,000,000 Iraqis. I don’t nessecerily believe this, but I do believe its a legitimate conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/67 "2015-02-09T21:15:43Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Or we could another route and say she should be held accountable for joining an organization that illegally invaded a sovereign country and contributed to the death of 1,000,000 Iraqis. That organization is the United States of America, not the military. You’re just as culpable, if you didn’t conveniently ignore the sovereignty of the US government over you. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/68 "2015-02-09T22:14:20Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That organization is the United States of America, not the military. You’re just as culpable, if you didn’t conveniently ignore the sovereignty of the US government over you. The flaw in your logic is I and our hypothetical E-4 didn’t choose to join the USA. She _did_ choose to join the military. If someone joined the NRA, don’t you think there’s a legitimate potential conversation to be had as to the morality of doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Phu\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Phu\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phu_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/69 "2015-02-16T17:30:02Z")
So, I am to understand joining the US military is some great moral decision? It sure wasn’t for me. Phu Cat ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/70 "2015-02-17T19:01:55Z")
The NRA is purely a political organization, the military is not and it is a necessary evil. By your same logic if police in a precinct beat a suspect because he was black nobody should ever join the police force, the police and the military are necessary and without them the country would quickly fall into chaos and disarray. The best way to make an organization better is from the inside and that means people that want to make these institutions better must join them and ultimately make them take more ethical and moral actions in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Phu\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Phu\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phu_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774/71 "2015-02-20T17:37:02Z")
Pool, Joining such an organization is one way to make it better, but the little guy can’t always do it by him or herself. Making things better almost always starts at the top. That’s why Jesse Jackson is so successful at bullying big companies. He doesn’t start with the hourly employees. Phu Cat [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-militarys-heinous-actions-and-especially-serving-in-those-institutions-get-such-a-pass/711774.md?page=3)