# How does the Pope feel about alternate forms of sexual gratification? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150 "2006-12-06T23:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Senor\_Pina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Senor\_Pina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senor_Pina)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/1 "2006-12-06T23:59:13Z")
If the Pope is opposed to anal sex and condom use because both prevent the making of babies, what is his stance on handjobs and blowjobs? If he’s also opposed to those things, at what point are non baby-making activities acceptable? Is heavy petting allowed? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/2 "2006-12-07T00:05:41Z")
The general answer is “No” to all of the above. Any non-generative sexual activity between people who are not married in the eyes of the Church is sinful. ---
**Author:** ![Senor\_Pina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Senor\_Pina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senor_Pina)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/3 "2006-12-07T00:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] The general answer is “No” to all of the above. Any non-generative sexual activity between people who are not married in the eyes of the Church is sinful. [/QUOTE] So what activities are allowed between people who are married? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/4 "2006-12-07T00:15:52Z")
[QUOTE=Señor Piña] So what activities are allowed between people who are married? [/QUOTE] Vaginal intercourse, missionary position. And even that is frowned on. ---
**Author:** ![Senor\_Pina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Senor\_Pina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senor_Pina)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/5 "2006-12-07T00:19:45Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Vaginal intercourse, missionary position. And even that is frowned on. [/QUOTE] In what part of the Bible is this stated? The Book of (Sexual) Acts? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/6 "2006-12-07T00:37:03Z")
[QUOTE=Señor Piña] In what part of the Bible is this stated? The Book of (Sexual) Acts? [/QUOTE] Who said anything about the bible? you asked about the pope. Here is an article from [Americancatholic.com](http://Americancatholic.com) that talks about the [Human Sexuality](http://www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0892.asp) document written by a group of bishops to explain the churches stand. Essentially, sex is only for married couples and must have the potential for conception. I was making a bit of a joke with the missionary position bit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/7 "2006-12-07T01:12:09Z")
It might be worth someone’s time to review JP2’s _Theology of the Body_, a document I have not read but which Catholic scholars of my acquaintance have called the most remarkable piece of theology by a Pope in several centuries. From what I understand, he addresses what Catholic teaching on the issue of sex ought to be, among many other things, in that document. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/8 "2006-12-07T01:22:56Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Essentially, sex is only for married couples and must have the potential for conception. [/QUOTE] So does that mean you’re not supposed to have sex if you know the woman is pregnant or if she is incapable of having children (no uterus or whatever)? ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/9 "2006-12-07T01:29:12Z")
Personal experience here, although not directly from the mouth of the Pope to my ears. My priest at my local church has actually promoted sex between couples for actual strengthening of the marriage. Although he does not go in details, he has spoken about many things, including ‘quickies’ when the kids are sleeping. Not sure what the Pope would have to say about that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/10 "2006-12-07T01:34:53Z")
And couples where the woman has reached menopause are doomed to Hell if they have sex too… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/11 "2006-12-07T01:41:57Z")
[QUOTE=snailboy] So does that mean you’re not supposed to have sex if you know the woman is pregnant or if she is incapable of having children (no uterus or whatever)? [/QUOTE] No problem, unless she had her uterus removed _specifically_ to stop procreation. It’s a matter of intended and unintended consequences. So schtupping your wife after menopause is just fine. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/12 "2006-12-07T01:53:25Z")
What about masturbation? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/13 "2006-12-07T01:54:53Z")
Every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten. Remember, Lust = Bad. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/14 "2006-12-07T02:00:11Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten. Remember, Lust = Bad. [/QUOTE] Yeah. If God had wanted people to feel sexual desire, he would have created them with the capacity to feel sexual desire. Oh, wait… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/15 "2006-12-07T02:01:28Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Any non-generative sexual activity between people who are not married in the eyes of the Church is sinful. [/QUOTE] “Inherently disordered” ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/16 "2006-12-07T02:27:41Z")
But desire= not bad. Lust is generally defined as the use of people for sexual gratification, as opposed to sex that is about self-giving for your spouse’s pleasure. That relates to the Church’s condemnation of pornography, which is based on porn’s inherent inability to be about two people sharing themselves with each other. Sex in Catholic teaching has two purposes- the _unitive_ (that which unites) and _procreative_ (the act of creation). They are not, in Catholic teaching, separable. to circumvent either of them deliberately is sinful, by barrier methods or by The Catholic teaching on hand jobs, oral etc. is that it is fine, but that the end result of sex has to be open to procreation i. e. penile orgasm in vagina. Whether or not the woman is currently fertile is immaterial. That’s the basic doctrine. Every time you misuse a semicolon, God kills kittens, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/17 "2006-12-07T02:28:44Z")
My understanding is that you can do anything you want, as long as it culminates in vaginal intercourse, so as not to avoid creating life. So, technically, none of the activities mentioned are “not allowed,” they are just not supposed to be a substitute for regular intercourse. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/18 "2006-12-07T02:29:48Z")
I should add that this is between married couples, of course…unmarried folks shouldn’t be doing anything! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/19 "2006-12-07T02:56:52Z")
Misuse of a colon, though, is a mortal sin. See above: “inherently disordered.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150/20 "2006-12-07T03:20:21Z")
From what I have been to\*\* Lisslald \*\* has stated it as succintly as possible. The problem is that the Catholic Church (the Pope) has never been able to deal with the problem of “wet dreams”. They can’t condemn them because they are outside of one’s control but, on the other hand, they are the product of lustful thoughts and the desire of other prohibited activities. Such a conundrum . . . . . . and that’s why it’s all a bunch of BS. It’s a problem when your prohibitions start crashing into each other. Screw it! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-pope-feel-about-alternate-forms-of-sexual-gratification/383150.md?page=2)