# How does the Secret Service prevent long range snipers from getting to the President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859 "2013-01-21T02:28:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/22 "2013-01-21T06:16:53Z")
> [@Frisco](#): > > I’ve been on the roof of a DC building and I know the building management notified the secret service in advance for permission. The WH was in view. And I wondered then how many eyes were watching us. > [@anika001](#): > > I’ve been on the roof of a DC building and I know the building management notified the secret service in advance for permission. The WH was in view. And I wondered then how many eyes were watching us. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![snowmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@snowmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowmaster)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/23 "2013-01-21T07:05:10Z")
I’m thinkin cut n’ paste error, but that sure is odd, **Tangent** ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/24 "2013-01-21T11:08:01Z")
They did an episode of _Mythbusters_ where they had a long-range military sniper on. And at one point, they showed how he had to aim something like fifteen feet over his target to take in account the way his bullet would drop as it traveled. It makes you appreciate how hard these long range shots can be. Add in the fact that the President is usually going to have a crowd of people around him and often appears in areas where surrounding buildings create complicated wind patterns and it would seem like a long range shot would be almost impossible even without Secret Service interference. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/25 "2013-01-21T11:13:19Z")
Some people have used arguments like I posted to claim that it was impossible for Oswald to have shot Kennedy. What they don’t realize is that Oswald was actually shooting from a very short distance. I’ve read different figures but the consensus is the distance of the shot was around eighty meters, which is an easy distance to hit a target with a rifle, especially when you have a scope and bench. As Siam Sam posted, the record is 2815 meters. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/26 "2013-01-21T11:22:36Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Mostly I’d say it’s that in spite of all the intense and hostile negative attitudes, they really don’t want to shoot the guy. The guys who have attacked the president in recent history are all going on the record books as being some pretty fucked-up people. > > And, the SS puts their own spotters on the roofs of surrounding buildings, and they DO have snipers that can make that shot from half a mile. Talk about a compelling argument for a payrise. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/27 "2013-01-21T11:50:39Z")
> [@snowmaster](#): > > I’m thinkin cut n’ paste error, but that sure is odd, **Tangent** … and now **anika001** is gone! dum dum duuuum! ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/28 "2013-01-21T12:12:32Z")
When Obama came to Trinidad for the 5th summit of the America’s? he was going to stay in the downtown Port Of Spain Hyatt: [http://0.tqn.com/d/gocaribbean/1/0/C/1/-/-/HyattRegencyTrinidad.jpg](http://0.tqn.com/d/gocaribbean/1/0/C/1/-/-/HyattRegencyTrinidad.jpg) (You can’t really see it but the hotel is waterfront and behind it is all the buildings downtown and the offices.) At the last minute the secret service decided the hotel was too exposed to sniper attack from the buildings, and rocket attack from the water. So they moved him to the St Anns Hilton which is build right up against a mountain and facing a very large park on the other side with tree cover. I only remember this because of the absolute traffic nightmare the move was with roving road closures etc.😛 I think the secret service absolutely takes sniper attack into account at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/29 "2013-01-21T13:48:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Add in the fact that the President is usually going to have a crowd of people around him and often appears in **areas where surrounding buildings create complicated wind patterns** and it would seem like a long range shot would be almost impossible even without Secret Service interference. (Bolding mine) I was just thinking about this. Downtown areas and areas with lots of buildings get complicated wind patterns that would be impossible to calculate. I’ve seen flags across the street from eachother flying opposite directions, and you can go from blow-your-umbrella-inside-out wind to calm by turning a corner. I don’t know how much the wind affects a half mile shot, but I imagine it’s enough to make you miss a person sized target. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/30 "2013-01-21T14:05:59Z")
The building I work in overlooks Bank of America Stadium, where the President was set to give the DNC speech (it was relocated due to weather). Several parts of our building were to be closed off for the day (I was out of town, so I didn’t physically see it, but it was announced in advance so people could make work accomodations). ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/31 "2013-01-21T14:24:36Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > [But they do exist](http://www.examiner.com/article/new-world-record-set-for-longest-sniper-kill-afghanistan). His record is 2815 meters, which is 1.74916 miles. Just for completeness, this extraordinary shot was the culmination of 9 ranging rounds before finally hitting the two Taliban soldiers. I can’t imagine an assassin getting a chance to bracket the President. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/32 "2013-01-21T14:50:27Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > Just for completeness, this extraordinary shot was the culmination of 9 ranging rounds before finally hitting the two Taliban soldiers. I can’t imagine an assassin getting a chance to bracket the President. I believe the previous record of 2475 meters had no ranging rounds IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/33 "2013-01-21T15:05:32Z")
Are you sure Presidents don’t wear a bullet proof vest? In the back of my mind I remember something about Bush II wearing one. I might have read it after 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/34 "2013-01-21T15:59:06Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Are you sure Presidents don’t wear a bullet proof vest? In the back of my mind I remember something about Bush II wearing one. I might have read it after 9/11. You might be thinking of when he threw out the first pitch at the 2001 World Series. Not sure if it was confirmed he was wearing a vest (probably not, given how the SS usually keeps extremely quiet about protection details) or if it was something everyone figured out because the baseball warmup jacket he was wearing looked big on him. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/35 "2013-01-21T16:11:13Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > (Bolding mine) > > I was just thinking about this. Downtown areas and areas with lots of buildings get complicated wind patterns that would be impossible to calculate. I’ve seen flags across the street from eachother flying opposite directions, and you can go from blow-your-umbrella-inside-out wind to calm by turning a corner. I don’t know how much the wind affects a half mile shot, but I imagine it’s enough to make you miss a person sized target. A 10 mph crosswind will make a .338 Lapua (depending on bullet weight) drift 40-45 inches at 800 yds. 135-155 at a mile. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/36 "2013-01-21T16:12:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Some people have used arguments like I posted to claim that it was impossible for Oswald to have shot Kennedy. What they don’t realize is that Oswald was actually shooting from a very short distance. I’ve read different figures but the consensus is the distance of the shot was around eighty meters, which is an easy distance to hit a target with a rifle, especially when you have a scope and bench. As Siam Sam posted, the record is 2815 meters. Until you’ve actually been at Dealey Plaza, you won’t believe how short the distances actually are. A quarterback could have hit JFK with a decently thrown pass. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/37 "2013-01-21T16:34:15Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Are you sure Presidents don’t wear a bullet proof vest? In the back of my mind I remember something about Bush II wearing one. I might have read it after 9/11. Doubt he’s wearing an [Interceptor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interceptor_body_armor) with plates, or any other vest that’ll stop a centerfire rifle bullet. For one thing, with plates, they weigh in the neighborhood of 25 pounds. Re, the new technology making it easier for an intermediate shooter to hit long range targets, I wouldn’t be surprised if the SS had tech that detected laser light—which is how those new scopes are determining range, and probably wind too—and had such a detector hooked up to a laser blinder. Ouch. I cannot find evidence for the oft-repeated cite that the USSS [Counter Sniper Support Unit](http://www.secretservice.gov/whoweare_ud.shtml) regularly wins inter-service shooting competitions, but I’d feel comfortable saying that they are better rifle shots than the vast majority of the potential rifle shooting threats they face. On [Dealey Plaza](http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/dealey-plaza/view/?service=0), as **kunilou** notes, it is extremely small, as this sort of thing goes. Measure it for yourself in something like Google Maps. The author, Tom Clancy, (not that he’s an expert on this sort of thing, but w/e, neither am I) wrote that, in his opinion, Oswald never used the scope: the iron sights that were also on the rifle were sufficient for the shots. My own brush with VIPs outdoors involved then-VP Al Gore meeting the Russian Premier at my school. It didn’t affect the parts of campus I was going to, but there were plenty of guys on the rooftops with binoculars and IIRC, one guy with a rifle. I’m sure there were more, but I had an O. Chem lab I was late for, and I didn’t feel it wise to gawk for a half hour and play ‘find the sniper’. Security has probably gotten a lot more intrusive, post-9/11, and I’m sure that if the conference were held today, I’d have a tougher time walking to class. I never thought before about the swirling winds in your typical urban environment, but that seems like a big deterrent for that sort of thing. Even though the bullet isn’t going to be spending very long in a given wind, and therefore won’t be pushed very far by that wind. (As distinct from the large distances a constant wind over the entire flight can push a bullet. See for yourself, with a ballistics calculator. I like [this guy’s](http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml), but I’m sure there are others.) The sets of people that (A) can make a first shot hit at “long range” and (B) are willing to die in the attempt don’t intersect much, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/38 "2013-01-21T16:40:02Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > That may change, as there are all sorts of computerized automatic targeting aids that will help moderately-skilled snipers expand their range. I believe they are trying to develop bullets with maneuver capability, enough that they could follow a laser guide beam. ---
**Author:** ![Silence\_Lenore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Silence\_Lenore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silence_Lenore)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/39 "2013-01-21T17:15:56Z")
Candidate Romney held a rally in the center of the town where I work at a bicycle shop. The shop is right across the street from the town green where the rally was being held. On one of the trips outside to see what was going on, I noticed that one of the dusty, dirty dormer windows high up on the roof of the town hall across the green was open and there was a person with a rifle in the window. When Romney finally showed up, all of us went out to see the hoopla, including the shop owner who just happened to be holding the front fork of a bicycle, (which for those not familiar with bicycles, the top of a front fork is a long metal tube). I said to him that it might be a good idea to put the fork back inside. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/40 "2013-01-21T17:29:44Z")
I thought I had posted this before, but the USSS is on the ball like you wouldn’t believe. A cop buddy of mine and I were at a Waffle House at 1or 2 in the morning somewhere in the Atlanta area. A state trooper comes in, and is obviously familiar with the waitress. He’s hitting on her for all he’s worth. He pauses for a moment, calls his supervisor, and tells him he’s at the hospital visiting someone, and he’ll be out of service for a while. He then turns his attention back to girl. This raises our eyebrows, but whatever. He then gets a phone call from a buddy, and starts chatting about getting together. No, can’t do it on Sunday. He’s escorting Pres. Bush to the Braves game. They’ll be at gate X between 12:15 and 12: 20, then enter at 12:21, and so on. Now the likelihood of an assassin sitting there waiting for travel details is pretty close to zero. The possibility of someone listening to his cell are pretty much the same. However. We agreed that a cop shouldn’t be telling anyone the President’s business, especially details, and we should do something. At about 2 in the morning, we called the SS and gave them the story. In less than 14 minutes, two SS agents were there at Waffle House with his supervisor. Spoke a moment with him outside, then took his gunbelt and gear and hauled his ass somewhere. Don’t know what ever happened to him, but we did learn that the USSS are some pretty humorless fuckers that address every possibility they can and quickly at that. The [Bulgarians](http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/world/2013/01/19/vo-failed-assassination-attempt-bulgaria.tv-7-bulgaria)could learn a thing or two… ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859/41 "2013-01-22T02:47:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Just as a w.a.g., I would say probably a combination of the following: > [ul][li]No president would ever ride in an open convertible nowadays.[/li][li]The exact route and schedule the president takes is always need to know.[/li][li]When possible public appearances are held in indoor areas that can be secured.[/li][li]When he makes a scheduled appearance in an outdoors location, the Secret Service actively searches and covers every possible vantage point out to military sniper distances.[/li][/ul] This is my instinct. But, y’know, anyone who actually knows the answer isn’t supposed to tell us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-secret-service-prevent-long-range-snipers-from-getting-to-the-president/647859.md?page=3)