# How does the sex aspect make HPV vaccination controversial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769 "2011-09-19T00:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/1 "2011-09-19T00:57:11Z")
Apparently part of the controversy here is that the human papilloma virus is an STD. Why does that make it controversial? I mean, if there were such thing as a safe and effective preventative vaccine for HIV or syphilis or gonorrhea, then **of course** it should be administered as universally as the measles-mumps-rubella shot, that’s a no-brainer. What am I missing here?! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/2 "2011-09-19T01:00:33Z")
People think sex should come with potential punishment. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/3 "2011-09-19T01:02:02Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > People think sex should come with potential punishment. Hole in one. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/4 "2011-09-19T01:08:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Apparently part of the controversy here is that the human papilloma virus is an STD. Why does that make it controversial? I mean, if there were such thing as a safe and effective preventative vaccine for HIV or syphilis or gonorrhea, then **of course** it should be administered as universally as the measles-mumps-rubella shot, that’s a no-brainer. What am I missing here?! Admitting that your child might get HPV is admitting that your ability to teach them 'morals" is limited. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/5 "2011-09-19T01:08:50Z")
Part of the controversy is making the vaccine a standard requirement for young people. Unlike MMR vaccines, HPV isn’t something you can get simply by being in close proximity to a carrier. As Tao pointed out, part of it is certainly the sex angle. I think the HPV vaccination is a good idea and if I had a daughter I’d want her to get it. I don’t all girls should be required to get it the same way they are the MMR vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/6 "2011-09-19T01:18:20Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > People think sex should come with potential punishment. And of course, it only ever happens to other people’s daughters. Who have sex. With boys. So, filthy sluts. Not Precious Flower here, no sir ! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/7 "2011-09-19T01:22:09Z")
As I tell my microbiology students, after we’ve debated this issue for a while- not all sex is consensual. Even if your argument against the vaccine is that you don’t want to encourage sexual activity, should your daughter pay the price for rape or coerced sex? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/8 "2011-09-19T01:37:42Z")
Morality should come out of conscience not out of fear and compulsion. The hysterical Helen Lovejoy-esque ranting of Representative Bachmann and others approaches Narm ([http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/Narm?from=Main.Narm](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/Narm?from=Main.Narm)) and I wish Governor Perry would not bend and say what he did was a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/9 "2011-09-19T01:46:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Morality should come out of conscience not out of fear and compulsion. We agree on something? Should I pinch myself? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/10 "2011-09-19T01:49:58Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > People think sex should come with potential punishment. Like it doesn’t always?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/11 "2011-09-19T01:54:42Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Part of the controversy is making the vaccine a standard requirement for young people. Unlike MMR vaccines, HPV isn’t something you can get simply by being in close proximity to a carrier. Exactly. As a doctor in one of Robert Heinlein’s last novels _(To Sail Beyond the Sunset)_ pointed out, an STD is the **least** contagious of all contagious diseases – which would make it the easiest kind to completely eradicate, just identify and treat all the infected persons – which is impossible, because people lie about sex, and keep secrets about sex, and have all kinds of social rules with potential for embarrassment, etc., etc. Well, you can’t do anything about human nature. Which makes it all the more imperative to use a vaccine if we have one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/12 "2011-09-19T01:55:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Like it doesn’t always?! Not as much as it [used to](http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-nipples-severely-underclamped-us-bureau-of,2882/). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/13 "2011-09-19T02:01:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Apparently part of the controversy here is that the human papilloma virus is an STD. Why does that make it controversial? I mean, if there were such thing as a safe and effective preventative vaccine for HIV or syphilis or gonorrhea, then **of course** it should be administered as universally as the measles-mumps-rubella shot, that’s a no-brainer. What am I missing here?! And, just so there’s misunderstanding, I mean that if there were a syphilis or HIV vaccine then **of course** it should be administered universally **to children.** ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/14 "2011-09-19T02:03:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Exactly. As a doctor in one of Robert Heinlein’s last novels _(To Sail Beyond the Sunset)_ pointed out, an STD is the **least** contagious of all contagious diseases – which would make it the easiest kind to completely eradicate, just identify and treat all the infected persons – which is impossible, because people lie about sex, and keep secrets about sex, and have all kinds of social rules with potential for embarrassment, etc., etc. > > . Dr House, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/15 "2011-09-19T02:13:02Z")
In real life sex gets you aids and STDs. In reel life it gets you killed by Micheal Myers. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/16 "2011-09-19T02:17:43Z")
Two notes: 1. Is the talk about HPV vaccines causing health problems largely myth like vaccines cause autism scares? 2. A legitimate criticism of Governor Perry might be that he did something by executive fiat which should have been done by legislative action-however if the legislature failed to do it, they were not doing its job either. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/17 "2011-09-19T02:27:31Z")
Do any other states mandate HPV vaccination? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/18 "2011-09-19T02:59:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And, just so there’s misunderstanding, I mean that if there were a syphilis or HIV vaccine then **of course** it should be administered universally **to children.** It should be. I do not think such a requirement should be mandated by law. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/19 "2011-09-19T03:19:53Z")
I believe that HPV vaccination is a good idea, but I also believe that individuals, and to some lesser but real degree parents, must be allowed to make decisions that I do not believe are good ones, as long as by doing so they are neither placing other people at substantial risk or their child at a high degree of risk. Diseases that are contagious through casual contact meet that public health concern burden that justifies eliminating the freedom of stupidity. HPV does not meet that standard. BTW, yes, the stories about adverse consequences are myths like the autism ones, things that happen to occur during the three two week periods following the shots over the six months (25% of that 6 month period is within two weeks of one of the shots, lots of random stuff can happen and get blamed on the shot, things like winning a lottery and falling in love … well other things anyway.) The reality is that it is inconvenient to three shots, stings quite a bit, and causes some kids to faint up to fifteen minutes later. I do not think any states mandate the vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769/20 "2011-09-19T03:38:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I believe that HPV vaccination is a good idea, but I also believe that individuals, and to some lesser but real degree parents, must be allowed to make decisions that I do not believe are good ones, as long as by doing so they are neither placing other people at substantial risk or their child at a high degree of risk. But in the long run, opting not to get vaccinated does just that, which is why it should be mandated by law. Not out of ethics or whatever, but out of biology. Because that’s how you eradicate a disease and no other way. That’s also why you’re supposed to take antibiotics long after your symptoms are gone to make sure every last bacteria causing your infection is deader than dead ; and why we now have “superbugs” - because people, not being forced by law to take their fucking meds like the doctors tells them at lengths to, _did and do not_. Which fucks everyone. Viruses and bacterias mutate. They evolve, like everything else. The current vaccines provide defenses against some of the current strain(s) of HPV, the worst ones. Which means that once an entire generation gets vaccinated, those strains will die down because they will not have any hosts any more (in that particular geographic area at any rate). No way to spread, and thus no large sample for the statistical aberrations that drive evolution to take place reliably. But if it does still have hosts because some people were being idiots and didn’t get vaccinated, the virus will stick around. And, sticking around, will get the chance to evolve. Eventually, one such evolution will be a way around the antibodies created by the vaccines. Then that new strain will spread anew, since the vaccine will be of no use against it whatsoever. Back to square one, with one fewer option. Or, to put it another way, the idiots who chose not to be vaccinated in effect punish those who did, and put them at risk. This is gross oversimplification of course, but the gist of it is I think close enough. > [@](#): > > Diseases that are contagious through casual contact meet that public health concern burden that justifies eliminating the freedom of stupidity. HPV does not meet that standard. quoth Wiki: > [@](#): > > HPV is estimated to be the most common sexually transmitted infection in the United States.[[90]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-Dunne_2007-89) Most sexually active men and women will probably acquire genital HPV infection at some point in their lives.[[85]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-Baseman-84) The [American Social Health Association](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Social_Health_Association) reported estimates that about 75-80% of sexually active Americans will be infected with HPV at some point in their lifetime.[[91]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-90)[[92]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-91) By the age of 50 more than 80% of American women will have contracted at least one strain of genital HPV.[[93]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-92)[[94]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-93)[[90]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV#cite_note-Dunne_2007-89) I’m thinking that “4 out of 5”, for an infection known to cause cancer, is kind of a concern public health-wise. Especially since while there is a vaccine, there is no cure or treatment. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sex-aspect-make-hpv-vaccination-controversial/596769.md?page=2)