# How does the sun REALLY work **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247 "2012-10-19T17:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/21 "2012-10-19T19:48:39Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > The energy for the sun doesn’t come from fusion in it’s core, it comes from the charge difference between the sun and the surrounding space. So the theory goes. So where do the solar neutrinos come from? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/22 "2012-10-19T19:50:00Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > So where do the solar neutrinos come from? _Shhhh!_ Please do **not** mention inconvenient facts that might disturb the OP! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/23 "2012-10-19T19:57:00Z")
The people who promote the “electric Sun” idea are wholly ignorant of all scientific results concerning the Sun from the past century or so, and the idea they promote is inconsistent with most of those scientific results. While it is true that the current theories concerning the Sun can’t wholly explain all of our observations, they can explain far more of them, and to a greater degree, than any alternative model yet proposed. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/24 "2012-10-19T20:24:57Z")
OP- How does your theory explain Novae and Supernovae? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/25 "2012-10-19T20:31:14Z")
Blown fuse. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/26 "2012-10-19T21:04:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The people who promote the “electric Sun” idea are wholly ignorant of all scientific results concerning the Sun from the past century or so, and the idea they promote is inconsistent with most of those scientific results. While it is true that the current theories concerning the Sun can’t wholly explain all of our observations, they can explain far more of them, and to a greater degree, than any alternative model yet proposed. Reading this post from the perspective of the OP, you might as well have posted > [@](#): > > Our current theory of how the sun produces energy is complete bunk, but I’m stubborn and shortsighted so I’m not going to buy into the electric model! I don’t know why you even try with people like this, Chronos. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/27 "2012-10-19T21:05:59Z")
Now you physicists and astronomers understand what it’s like for us biologists every single day. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/28 "2012-10-19T21:12:31Z")
If Astronomy evolved from Astrology, why is there still Astrology? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/29 "2012-10-19T21:20:54Z")
Where’s the switch, man? If the sun is electric, I want to know where the switch is! ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/30 "2012-10-19T21:35:30Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Where’s the switch, man? If the sun is electric, I want to know where the switch is! It might be one of these… > **[Do you have "mystery" light switches?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=669173)** > > We moved into our new house in July and have so far found 3 switches that don’t seem to do anything. Two are in the dining room, the other is by the kitchen door. Of course we both joked about the switches running the neighbor’s garage door but in... ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/31 "2012-10-19T21:36:18Z")
No switch. It’s hooked up to a [Clapper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HVA5MuWy8o). ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/32 "2012-10-19T21:51:17Z")
If we can detect all the ions of the solar wind moving _away_ from the sun, why can’t we detect these power ions supposedly moving _toward_ it? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/33 "2012-10-19T22:32:01Z")
Guys, guys, guys. The proper response to this is never to attack his theory outright nor support the [del]current[/del] contemporary theory. The proper response to these silly ideas is always… Interesting theory. Besides evidence against the current model, what evidence do you have for the new one? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/34 "2012-10-19T22:50:52Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > So where do the solar neutrinos come from? That’s from the fusion plant of the Andromedan battle cruiser that’s hiding _inside_ the Sun. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/35 "2012-10-19T23:18:11Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > However this explanation doesn’t fly with me …and you’re knowledgeable about stellar nuclear fusion? I.e., there’s some reason an explanation “not flying with you” has any significance? > [@Cmoore](#): > > there’s far too many glaring inconsistencies with what we’ve observed about the sun. Are there? Do [mainstream] scientists feel there are inconsistencies? Or does [mainstream] science explain these observations and it’s only your fringe theorists who call them inconsistencies? Can we get some [mainstream] citations? ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/36 "2012-10-20T00:29:07Z")
I’ve had qute a few beers since I last posted here but would like to try and answer your questions none the less. So please excuse my spelling mistakes, terrible grammer and possible idiocy. @ tracer, your points are interesting and require some mulling over, I’ll get back to you tomorrow. @ CJJ, I don’t really know what that’s supposed to mean, can you simplify it? @ Czarcasm "What do you mean when you use the term “mainstream science”? " I mean the theories that are accepted by mainstream science IE what the scientific establishment supports. I can hear the cogs churning in your head now thinking how I’m such a nut for disagreeing with what the establishment says is true. But don’t forget that the scientific orthodoxy has been overthrown many times before, and not without a fight from the supporters of the status quo. @ Cheshire human “So where do the solar neutrinos come from?” According to the theory, the “Z pinch” effect is the cause of fusion in the sun, it doesn’t happen in the centre, instead it happens in the double layer near the photosphere. Birkland currents (twisting ropes of current flow) snap together and cause fusion. I’ll get back to the rest of you tomorrow, got to be up in the morning. X ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/37 "2012-10-20T02:42:35Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > But don’t forget that the scientific orthodoxy has been overthrown many times before, and not without a fight from the supporters of the status quo. The overthrow was also accompanied by data, evidence, and a coherent theory. This doesn’t seem to have that. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/38 "2012-10-20T03:02:18Z")
> [@](#): > > B1. How did the sun form with such a massive positive charge that it has glowed for the last several billion years despite the constant influx of galactic electrons? > > B2. If the solar wind is positive, and accelerated away from the sun by charge repulsion, then the charge repulsion of the sun must be enough to overcome its own gravitational attraction. So what holds the sun together? > > B3. If a sunspot is just a ‘hole’ or ‘dimple’ in the surface that allows us to see deeper into the sun, why don’t they appear brighter than the surface, like a blackbody radiator? (If you take a metal tube and drill a small hole in the side, then heat the tube to incandescence, the hole actually looks brighter than the solid surface, even though the interior of the tube is at the same temp as the surface.) Is there something in the sun that cools the interior? > > G1. Is there a mathematical description of the theory? > > G2. How does the electric sun theory manage to describe steady state evolution of stars? > > G3. What keeps stars from collapsing? > > G4. How, exactly, does a plasma create new elements > > G4a. In what ratio are these elements created? > G4b. Why when we look back to the early universe why is the elemental composition of stars different from now if the process of elemental creation is based on z-pinch fusion? I’ve lifted these from the last “mainstream physics is just keeping decent theories down - electric sun! Woo!!!” thread. Bs were from **brossa** and Gs were from me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/39 "2012-10-20T03:23:24Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The overthrow was also accompanied by data, evidence, and a coherent theory. This doesn’t seem to have that. My thoughts exactly. Remember-they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247/40 "2012-10-20T14:14:15Z")
Put yet another way: Yes, it’s true that the scientific establishment vehemently attacked the ideas of Einstein et al. And they were right to do so: That’s exactly what they _should_ have done. The reason Einstein’s ideas are now themselves a major pillar of the current scientific establishment is that they managed to hold up, even under the most vehement attacks imaginable. That’s how progress is made in science. If you have a new idea, you shouldn’t be upset at those attacking your idea; you should be thanking them, and welcoming the attacks, because it’s only by withstanding those attacks that your ideas can gain ground. Or, of course, your ideas might _not_ withstand those attacks, and a proper scientist should welcome that, too, since science is not, fundamentally, a quest to become the greatest, but a quest for the truth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-sun-really-work/638247.md?page=3)