# How does the US military pay for things when abroad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284 "2021-08-21T20:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/1 "2021-08-21T20:10:38Z")
When a US military ship or plane or whatever needs supplies when in a foreign country how do they pay for it? Are they given stacks of cash? Do they carry a Visa or AmEx card? How do they pay for transit through things like the Suez Canal? I assume it is not always possible to supply from a US military base. So how does a warship or plane pay for thousands of gallons of fuel or other supplies? Or does the US somehow see to it that they supply everything on their own? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/2 "2021-08-21T20:20:04Z")
For the Navy, generally speaking arrangement are made in ports where they need to take on supplies. Fuel: Mainly at US & allied ports or underway. Food: There is some digression to acquire local food but generally not how it is done. Our Supply Officer picked up a large amount of Parmalat like milk product in South Korea. It was done via a voucher though, not card or cash. Generally speaking, I would gather that vendors know the US military is good for their debts. * * * Creating our supply chain and overseas ports has been a huge part of US Navy strategy since the Spanish-American war. Ours is unrivaled in history, though the British one was amazing back in their heyday. * * * Now early in WWII, things were different. A lot of barter happened and each island would be different. American Dollars weren’t as likely to buy stuff, especially early in the war. But our supply chain system quickly covered most needs and came up to speed fast. By 1944 the US Navy & Merchant Marines were supplying US needs and a good portion of our allies. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/3 "2021-08-21T20:43:19Z")
Thanks…good stuff. What about things like pilots coming aboard in local waters? I was watching a video (below…queued to the right spot) on the destroyer HMS Duncan (I realize that is not a US ship but I think the same question applies) transiting to the Black Sea and needed to take a ship pilot aboard to safely make the transit. I assume the pilots charge for the service. Is this just a prior arrangement? Send the bill to the government? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/90V9h7Srvdw/maxresdefault.jpg "Inside World's Most Advanced Destroyer: HMS Duncan | Warship: Life At Sea | Spark") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90V9h7Srvdw) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/4 "2021-08-21T20:50:25Z")
Government purchase order, often as part of the SOFA (status of forces agreement) between the countries. Nowadays it’s probably all done via computers. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/5 "2021-08-21T20:57:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What about things like pilots coming aboard in local waters? Outside of my knowledge, but I’m not sure the US Navy would allow a pilot onboard. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/6 "2021-08-21T23:07:22Z")
20 years ago, $75 cash payment for returning an AWOL member to military control: [05\_APPXD.DOC (defense.gov)](https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/05arch/05_appxda.pdf). Dunno if they still will pay cash. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/7 "2021-08-22T00:46:27Z")
The [Fat Leonard scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Leonard_scandal) involved a contractor who provided ship support services such as food and water, refueling, sewage removal and port security in several Southeast Asian ports. The head of the firm provided cash, luxury trips and prostitutes to several U.S. Naval Officers in return for directing ships to ports he serviced, providing intelligence on the movement of U.S. ships, structuring contracts to favor his company and impeding oversight and investigation of his activities. The investigation rocked the Seventh Fleet and resulted in dozens of personnel being criminally charged or disciplined in connection with the case. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/8 "2021-08-22T01:42:29Z")
Payment for projects on US military bases in Japanese is done by bank transfer with standard payment conditions. They bid out the project and qualify the winning vendor, just like businesses and other government organizations. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/9 "2021-08-22T01:56:00Z")
Some service members will also be contract specialists or contracting officers. One Army installation I worked at had a contracting office that was about 50 to 60 percent green suiters, and the rest civilians. They often were only there for a few months or so before they deployed elsewhere, but the procedures are fairly standard so their replacement would easily pick up where the other left off. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/10 "2021-08-22T18:47:22Z")
I don’t see why not. A pilot does not take command of the vessel, he advises the Captain on tight manoeuvres in waters with which he is familiar, and he has a working relationship with the local tugboats. (In effect, he does take charge, but not command) Warships are extremely expensive and hard to repair (technically, due to armour and other defenses; and also because you can’t just chuck the vessel in a dry dock and have it fixed by local contractors for operational security reasons). Having a civilian pilot on board to help avoid crashing into a pier is very likely to be encouraged. I have a friend who was a harbour pilot in a large harbour that (while commercial) has several times in the time I have known him accommodated various foreign navy vessels, including the USA. I’ll ask him - having been the senior pilot in the years before his retirement there’s a good chance he piloted a US Navy vessel. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/11 "2021-08-22T19:09:52Z")
There are only around 14 pilots licensed to take ships across the Columbia River Bar. I believe the law _requiring_ a pilot to do the bar crossing applies only to commercial vessels, but it seems wise for a Navy vessel to use them. I can’t find any reference to the Navy using them, though. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/12 "2021-08-23T03:25:15Z")
I’ve seen a reference to the Navy qualifying a harbor pilot, so that they didn’t have to to use civilian pilots for a specific location, but I can’t find it. Unless stuff has changed in the last 20 years, the Navy almost always uses civilian pilots when abroad. I would imagine that for Navy Bases, being a location that didn’t require a civilian harbor pilot would be a factor in selection. Payment when abroad is done the same way any business would do it: contract, order, invoice, then by bank transfer, by cheque/voucher, by credit card, and, if necessary, by cash. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/13 "2021-08-23T03:34:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What about things like pilots coming aboard in local waters? I found this thread on another message board, which asked this exact question. I found it interesting that there were several posters who said, “I was in the Navy for years, we _never_ used local harbor pilots,” and others who said, “I was in the Navy for years, and we _always_ used local harbor pilots.” Very strange. > **[Do navy ships take on harbor pilots? - Open Forum | DSLReports Forums](https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30035573-Do-navy-ships-take-on-harbor-pilots)** > > Forum discussion: Strange question I know.... Commercial vessels coming into pretty much any busy harbor or other water ways with their own local quirks have harbor pilots that take over control of the vessel until it has reached a dock or a place... ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/14 "2021-08-23T05:10:19Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “I was in the Navy for years, we _never_ used local harbor pilots,” and others who said, “I was in the Navy for years, and we _always_ used local harbor pilots.” One suspects there is a huge variation depending on the type of vessel and its deployment. A quick search uncovers a huge number of examples of civilian pilots used on US Navy vessels, up to and including piloting aircraft carriers through the Panama Canal. But coastal and littoral duties probably mostly involve working out of a given base, and training the crew to manage transit in and out of their home port would make sense. Once past that, and you get a pilot. A pilot is a very specialised skill. Naval assets can have prices tags that make your ears bleed. Nobody is going to trust navigating in and out of an unfamiliar port to anyone other than a locally trained pilot. Trying to do so is likely a career ending activity for any CO. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/15 "2021-08-23T05:51:12Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > What about things like pilots coming aboard in local waters? > > Outside of my knowledge, but I’m not sure the US Navy would allow a pilot onboard. Can’t speak for the US Navy but a colleague of mine is a senior navigation officer with the Australian navy. Needed to contact him in his role as the coach of one of the clubs football teams. Sent it to his work email address any usual. Reply came back from a hotmail address. “Sorry can’t respond, am currently piloting a Chinese frigate into Darwin harbour and the Chinese are a bit angsty about external communications.” 🙃 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/16 "2021-08-23T08:38:25Z")
I had one US military contractor in Islamabad try to pay me in wads of dollars, I told him Afghanistan was _that_ way, and here I needed a paper or rather an electronic trail. They did a bank transfer. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/17 "2021-08-23T09:36:39Z")
Why would you expect the Navy to not want a pilot in unfamiliar waters? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/18 "2021-08-23T12:45:24Z")
Well, as a Surface Warfare Officer, I can state that we used local pilots all the time. And why not? They’ve been sailing those waters their entire lives. They come with insurance to potentially cover some of the damage that would come from a piloting error. The CO would be right with him, asking questions - “what about that buoy,” “isn’t that sunken vessel there an issue” etc. Because no matter what, pilot or no, the CO bears responsibility for any harm that comes from his/her ship. We used pilots in the US and overseas. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/19 "2021-08-23T12:53:11Z")
Not aircrew so I’m light on details but there’s a program in the USAF called AIRCard, it’s a commercial credit card that aircrews can use to pay for services at civilian airports. I don’t know the current vendor. I know they use these stateside if they land at a commercial airport, since it’s just a Visa or whatever I assume they work overseas as well. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284/20 "2021-08-23T12:53:55Z")
Cool, thanks for the answer from knowledge. I clearly stated it was outside my knowledge. I was just a Snipe after-all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-the-us-military-pay-for-things-when-abroad/949284.md?page=2)