Is it true that, in the UK, a family of three can live comfortably without working, through public funds?
No, see post 8.
No, that is not the case. A family of three on public funds probably won’t starve to death or end up homeless, and their medical needs will be taken care of. But that’s not a life I’d call “comfortable”.
Well, I’m not too familiar with the US system myself, and I do understand that it varies from one state to another. In the UK, the vast bulk of the welfare budget goes on state retirement pensions and housing assistance which is paid to private landlords. Everything else is a drop in the ocean compared to these things.
But if we take a hypothetical unemployed single 30 year old man with no children who can show that he is actively seeking employment, and who lives in my area, he might receive:
£57 per week Jobseekers Allowance, that’s to buy food and pay the bills
£55 per week Housing Benefit - the going rate for a room in a shared apartment in this area.
So, £112 per week (US$178). All medical care, dental care and prescriptions will be covered too, but if we assume able-bodied, that might not make too much difference. Folks over 35 can get a bit more.
Jobseekers Allowance is £71 a week. In London, in the bit where I am, the current Housing Benefit rate for a room in a shared house is £82 a week.
This thread touches on something I’ve often wondered:
What do those people who are unemployed but don’t get a job within six months do? I’m talking about people who through sheer bad luck or maybe a mild (undiagnosed) mental illness happen to end up still unemployed after six months.
There must be some of them around. What do they do when the cheques stop coming in?
I have never heard that before- would you mind citing a source?
Contributory JSA(C) lasts for 26 weeks, but if you exhaust that, you can claim means-tested JSA(IB). That’s not limited to six months and theoretically, you could claim it indefinitely. Good luck with that, though - you’ll be farmed out to the Work Programme.
Of course, JSA(IB) takes into account any savings, or the income of a partner, which JSA(C) does not.
People who are too ill to work should claim ESA, not JSA. I was an ESA processor, for my sins.
Yeah, I got the ages wrong. JSA is about £57 if you are under 25, and about £71 if you are over 25. The HB rate changes at 35. A single person over 35 is entitled to the one bedroom rate, not the shared apartment rate.
Advising people on welfare benefits in the UK is a pain in the ass, but this is what I do.
Yeah I meant people in the US. What do they do?
Me too
It should be noted that by “disabled” these programs mean permanently unable to work disabled, meaning someone missing a leg might not qualify because missing a limb doesn’t bar you from holding a job. So you have to be very disabled to qualify, and many people folks would think are disabled aren’t under the program definitions.
As an example, in my area there is a ten year waiting list for public housing.
[nitpick] WIC stands for “women, infants, and children”. It’s not a benefit just for young mothers. It is for pregnant and nursing women, infants, and young children. A single father, for example, might collect this on behalf of a young child to supplement the kid’s diet.
Food stamps are about the only time-unlimited benefit left.
The initial six months benefit of unemployment insurance is state funded. The extensions beyond that are Federally funded. You can only collect a maximum of 99 weeks of unemployment. Whether or not there are extensions granted past 6 months depends on the unemployment rate of the particular state in question.
Disability through Social Security is a bit more complex. It does not necessarily involve being permanently unable to work, just completely unable to work now. Every few years the person has to rejustify that the disabling condition still exists. It does not preclude going to school.
Example: A person who does primarily physical labor loses the use of a limb so that he/she can no longer do that job. He/She goes to school and learns to do a different job that doesn’t require that limb, and he can get off disability and start earning. However, if the person is unable to learn the necessary skills for, say, office work, upon proper documentation he may be able to continue on disability.
Example: An apparently able-bodied person has a mental or neurological problem such that on any random day he/she may not be able to get out of bed or to interact with others. Every few years this has to be re-asserted and re-proven with current medical documentation.
Example: If an office worker loses the use of his legs, he will most likely not be eligible for disability. His employer may be required to be sure the workplace is handicapped-accessible, but that’s usually the case anyway these days.
ETA: It is very difficult to get the initial approval for disability. Almost everyone is turned down the first time. The persistent may appeal, hire a lawyer specializing in this problem, and may eventually be successful.
I think they starve or turn to crime. Or maybe get a job, it does happen. But not as often as is commonly assumed. The US has one of the worst rates of advancement in the developed world. The European welfare system is far more likely to help you into work than the American system.
You’re another UK benefits adviser? Thank fuck! I sometimes think I’m the only one.
I don’t know what welfare is like in Europe but the problem in the U.S. is that everything is based on family size and income. Basically if you’re like my brother-in-law with a wife and four kids and no skills with a lousy work history, you’re better off selling excess food stamps and subletting a section 8 apartment while earning money under the table. On the other hand I know people who do work and rely on the assistance because private sector employers are stingy and often don’t pay a living wage.
The way I understand it, in a lot of Western Europe things like health care and assistance are available to more people who aren’t poor so that probably causes less resentment towards those programs.
I’ll certainly agree that the US is divided along race and class lines but it strike me as exceptionally naive to say that’s not true of much of Europe. Certainly many ethnic Turks in Germany and ethnic Algerians in France would laugh at the suggestion that there countries don’t have such problems.
For that matter while I’d rather be a Pakistani in the UK than an Algerian in France, neither strikes me as terribly appealing.
Well, if you’re not too old or sickly then there’s always the military. Thinking of people I know personally, they generally wind up moving back in with their parents or with another relative, friend, etc.
But the UK welfare system takes no account of your ethnicity. It’s not information that’s recorded.
Now, is there racism in the UK? Yes, I imagine so, but that’s a different question.
But if you aren’t interested in killing people, what would you do?
A lot of people move into some kind family member’s basement or back bedroom and try to live as unobtrusively as possible. Perhaps they cobble together a patchwork of odd jobs (babysitting), part-time/seasonal work, or community college courses to keep themselves sane. Being religious probably helps too.
People who lack family willing to help them out do suffer. But don’t forget that there are non-profit charities that provide some services. Stuff like food banks and YMCA really make a difference.
Sure, a lot of people wind up couchsurfing, but there are still thousands of homeless people in the US and whenever I hear about how shelters and food banks make such a difference I can’t help but remember the two times I was on my way to work in Chicago and happened upon a homeless person frozen to death in the winter, that is, dead from lack of shelter.
Clearly, the system is not perfect.
Americans are not as kind and generous as they’d like to believe they are.