Deposit the cheque, don’t touch the money, odds are if it is a scam (odds are it is) then you will be out the bounced cheque fee. As others point out, just because some teller says no, does not mean the bank won’t still charge you.
Deposit the cheque, await further instructions. They instruct you to buy laptop, phone etc. from source A so now you send money to source A - which is probably the scammer in another guise. Laptop is either overpriced or never arrives. Cheque bounces - you are out bounce bank fee and amount you sent. They instruct you to send back whatever you didn’t need for expenses. You are out entire cheque and bank fees.
Or, it’s legit - the most most unlikely scenario. A real employment opportunity would have sent you the laptop, phone, whatever directly if they meant to pay for it. Plus, think about it - anything that “is over and above, to reimburse for time and trouble” is technically wages subject to withholding tax, etc. A company would not do this if you are their employee, as they risk being dinged by the IRS.
Is there some place you can take the check to see if it’s valid, presuming you were very candid about the entire sequence of events and your suspicions?
Or can you mail it (with a tracking number, so it doesn’t get lost) to the local bank that issued the check and ask them to cash it and send you the cash value, even though it is in Texas and you are in NYC? If that happened (I’m guessing that you would also need to include a copy of your ID, to match to the payee), would that bank be the one who would either cash the check because it is real or red flag it because it’s fake, without consequence to the person who mailed it?
Or have I just inadvertently described some other type of scam?
This is not an accident of course. The scammers will make sure their check is drawn on a bank that is distant and obscure so that it takes as long as possible to bounce, so that the scammee waits a month,
then gets tempted to withdraw the funds, then it bounces later.
The refund of the fees that the bank will automatically charge for a bounced check which - after three phone calls and six emails and two hours of your time - you eventually persuade them to give you if you follow your scheme.
No people take checks because - unlike the check described by the OP - most checks are not a complete and obvious scam. In the example you give, your company took the check because (a) as you say yourself there was a history of getting payment, albeit one had to be quick and (b) your company knew who it was dealing with and could chase down payment even if the check bounced. They were no doubt a worthwhile customer overall, otherwise your company wouldn’t have kept doing business with them.
This situation is completely different. The payee is unknown and it’s an obvious scam.
One scam that his being seen is for the target to receive a text message from his bank asking him to verify that a payment is legitimate – respond with either YES or NO by text message.
When he responds, he gets a call from the bank’s security to help strengthen the security on the bank account. They ask all the usual questions to verify identity.
One victim was suspicious and so he called the bank on another line and they verified that they were on the line with him. So he was convinced it was legitimate. As it turned out, when the scammers called him, they also called the bank and they asked him the security questions that the bank asked them.
So if you get such a text message over a charge you didn’t make, call the bank itself from the back of your ATM card. You could probably reply with the NO just in case it is real, but if they call, don’t talk to them.
Sure, but that verification typically isn’t instantaneous - so to the account holder, it may appear that the the paying in process has worked, right up until the verification process rejects the cheque, and the uncleared funds vanish.
I think you’re describing a man-in-the-middle attack - a term that appears more commonly in the context of electronic/network security, but absolutely also happens with a person pretending (to the victim) to be the bank, and (to the bank) to be the victim/account holder.
I’ve also seen it with phishing links pretending to be coinbase - a site that usually requires 2FA - the victim types their username and password into the fake site, which has automation at the back end, trying to log into coinbase - coinbase sends the victim a code via SMS, and the fake site asks for the code, then uses it to compromise the account.
There is a story out there of a BofA customer that was told by the bank teller to deposit the check even though the victim was sure it was a scam. The victim was promptly arrested for trying to defraud the bank.
“That was kind of a red flag because it’s a lot of money,” he said. "I didn’t want to deposit it into my account because I didn’t want it to bounce. So Shinnick, who resides on Nob Hill, stopped by a BofA branch near Union Square in early January. He said he asked a teller if sufficient funds existed in the BofA business account to cover the check. “She said it was a valid account and that there were funds to cover it,” Shinnick recalled. “I said, ‘Great,’ and asked to cash the check.” He signed his name on the back. What Shinnick didn’t know is that he’d just become party to a crime. The bank account may have been real but the check was phony. What he also didn’t know is that, according to the police report for the case, a warning had been placed in BofA’s computer system to watch for fraudulent checks drawn on the account in question. The teller contacted the business and was informed that no check had been written to Shinnick for $2,000 or any other amount. She immediately passed the check to the branch manager. “I saw him talking on the phone and staring at me,” Shinnick said. “A few minutes later, four SFPD officers came into the bank. They didn’t say a thing. They just kicked my legs apart and handcuffed me behind my back.”
You are correct. It is a form of a man-in-the-middle attack.
Supposedly, most don’t go to that extent, though. Most will just ask standard questions and record the answers.
The main point is that you can’t just call the bank to verify that you are on the line with them on the other line.
In my case, it would be easier. I generally know the voices of the people at the bank. If I were to get a call from the bank with a voice I don’t know, I would be very suspicious.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread is the term “wire fate.” I used to use this years ago when I was given a questionable check (like a payment to stall a court action). When I deposited it, I told the bank to “wire fate,” which meant they would get a message (by teletype?) that the check had cleared. Once that was received, any funds in my account were as good as cash. I don’t remember if there was an extra charge for it. Maybe this option isn’t available anymore?
The court action I am referring to was a suit I had against a debtor. While I was waiting for the judge to call my case in court that day, I was handed a check as complete payment by the debtor. I told the judge that I had a check, but didn’t have time to deposit it, so if it turned out to be NG and I had cancelled the suit, I would have to begin again from scratch. Judge suggested the “wire fate” language to speed up the process.
Barron’s dictionary of business terms backs you up here.
wire fate item
checks, notes, or drafts sent to an out-of-town bank with instructions to notify by wire, usually federal wire, as to whether they were paid or not. Notification tells the sending bank when the check actually was paid, which is especially useful if the check is written for a large amount or if the check is being handled as a noncash item.
The story also said his intention was that he was intending to deposit the check. That story has some issues with it and I may have to find another cite because part of the story is the teller told him it would be ok to deposit a check even if it was fraudulent.
Yeah, I was going to say, that cite says he just asked if the account had sufficient funds to cover the check, not that he expressed any concerns or asked any questions about it being outright fraudulent.
Is it possible you’re misremembering the story, or the version you got was distorted?
If you walk into a bank and ask to cash a cheque - for cash - which is an outright forgery, then of course no surprise if you will end up at the police station. I suppose the question then becomes, can you explain to the police or judge how it would be a logical situation that you got the cheque and why you are innocent.
How is merely depositing a forged check any different? It is still a claim to ownership of the money, available for you to call upon at any time as your property. Depositing versus cashing seems like a distinction without a difference.
Something else to consider. Supposing you cash the check and take a “wait and see” approach. Okay…now suppose that the person who sent you the check pulls the next part of the “scam” (or the totally legit but really awkward business transaction) and asks for the extra money or whatever portion of the money they were expecting you to provide (the “business errands” part of “payment and business errands”)? Now you’re in the predicament that if the check is legitimate, you are now withholding from someone the funds that are rightfully theirs. That may itself expose you to some sort of civil or criminal liability.
The only “win” situation here is to refuse to participate in such a transaction. If that means not getting to work from New York for this office in Texas that happens to be totally legit but incredibly convoluted in their business transactions, then it’s probably just as well.
Cashing a cheque for cash suggests you perhaps are trying to escape with the funds, maybe before the cheque is determined to be forged. Plus, quite often the cheque is drawn on a different bank - so you are at the alleged cheque-writer’s bank (or a branch) rather than the bank where you are a known customer. Sure looks fishy.
Putting a cheque in your account that you use for day-to-day finances, and leaving it there, when you are probably a long time customer of the bank, suggests you believe the money was honestly given to you for a valid transaction.
But yes, the moment someone starts playing this “please cash this cheque” game, run the other way. If they are truly a legitimate company, they would do the transactions themselves and have the computer or whatever sent to you. At the very least, you should be able to locate the business online and contact them in that way. If they are not well enough established that they can be found, they simply are not real.