Autosears for M-16s, btw, are treated the same as a machine gun w.r.t. the National Firearms Act, the law that governs possession, ownership, manufacture and transfer of machine guns (i.e. full auto), “silencers”, sawed-off shotguns, short-barreled rifles and destructive devices. Legally, they have to be register themselves. You could probably still buy one (good luck finding one), but it is no longer legal to make them for civilian consumption.
I think BATFE still runs their “ad” in Shotgun News offering auto-sears for sale. They’ve been trolling for chumps with it for so long that you’d think every idiot who was going to suck in for it had already done so, but I guess the expense of placing the ad is minor even if they are down to landing only the occasional fool.
Shotgun News is (or was, anyway) full of ads for full-auto weapons. You have to get the tax stamp, of course, but once you have that, you can legally buy the gun. The BATFE ad sounds like an urban legend to me. Are you sure it’s really there?
Rob
Yeah. I don’t have a copy of SGN in front of me, but the ad should be familiar to anybody who ever read an issue. It has a line drawing of an auto-sear and promises legal ones for sale to anybody. IIRC, the address given for inquiries is in Florida.
The legit ads for full-auto are there, too, but they are typically along the lines of “machineguns bought and sold” and have plenty of contact information.
MichaelEmouse
The system used by licensed firearms dealers is called NICS or National Instant Criminal background check System. (Not to be confused with NCIS which is a TV show)
Dealers use this system at gun shows for the same verification as if they were in their main sales location, all you need in an internet hook-up.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet
There is no difference between the regulations followed at a gun show and those followed in a gun store.
The ‘gun show exception’ is that you cannot control what private parties may or may not do illegally, any where.
Good page about auto-sears including some valuable legal details. BATFE’s trolling ad specifically mentions the auto-sears as being pre-81 but leaves out the important bits about it being a felony to own one together with an AR-15.
In MN, and I would imagine most if not all other states, selling a firearm to someone who is not able to legally possess one (convicted felon, etc.) is illegal, whether you “knew” they were forbidden or not. That said, only firearms dealers are actively required by law to do background checks. The infamous “Gun Show Loophole” is a misnomer since the exact same thing- a private sale- can happen anywhere. You could only ban it by banning all unrecorded transfers of firearms- which strikes many gun owners as uncomfortably Orwellian.
The article says that it is rumored that the ads are a BATFE come-on.
Rob
In Minnesota buying from a dealer at a gun show is just like buying anywhere else. If you’re of age an pass a NICS check you can walk out of the show with a shotgun or rifle that day. A pistol requires a waiting period unless you previously got a “permit to acquire a handgun” which is optional but “pre-clears” you so you can walk out with a pistol. However buying from a private seller you just trade cash for a gun. like Some of the people with tables aren’t dealers, and some “buyers” bring in a personal weapon or two to try to sell, which is allowed, or at least tolerated. Because I have a federal collectors license if I bought a collectable firearm a dealer technically wouldn’t need to run a NICS check on me, although most would. An I’d have to see the drivers license of someone if I bought a collectable from a private party, which I imagine some people would balk at.
So there are some states that allow unregulated private, non-dealer sales.
What is the advantage to registering as a dealer?
If I wanted to make a career at buying and selling used guns, it seems like I’d be better off not registering.
ETA: Is a dealer’s license required for setting up a booth at a gun show?
By current federal law, only people with a Federal Firearms License (FFL) can receive handguns shipped across state lines. I believe there are also some privileges with regards to Federally-regulated (NFA) items such as full-auto firearms or suppressors.
As others have said, you get guns at gun shows in EXACTLY the same manner that you get guns at any other place in society. If you buy from a dealer, all federal paperwork and background checks apply. If from an individual, then your individual state may require paperwork/background check or it may not.
Keeping in mind that this is GQ, I think it is fair to factually say that buying a gun at a gunshow contains no “loophole” in that they follow the same law as anywhere else.
Dealers can buy guns at wholesale prices from distributers… Maybe not an issue if you’re buying used guns from individuals and reselling them at a profit, but if you want to sell new guns you can’t exactly go about paying retail and then selling retail.
If you have a corperation or an LLC there is some shield of liability. Same advantage to actually having a business in any other field.
Typically you don’t need to be a dealer to sell at a gun show booth. I don’t know what percentage are because I’ve never actually bought a gun at a show, just ammunition and accessories, although a few of them will display their license or say something like “licensed dealer” on their booth.
Some used collectable guns are available wholesale too. As a licensed collector I can buy them wholesale and have them shipped to my door, or even sell a gun now and then without doing a NICS check. But running a business on a collectors license is strictly verboten. Selling a gun now and then is part of collecting, but if I bought 25 and sold 25 in a month that would bring unwanted attention. A dealer could do that.
You can only buy new firearms from wholesalers with a FFL for one.
If you buy a firearm to sell without a FFl you could very well be in jeopardy.
MDCastle posted;
I do not know why you used the word collectible, other than about any firearm is to some degree collectible. But in MN law one is not permitted to transfer a firearm to someone they do not know thereby requiring an ID check.
I have a form i use and is on my web site just for an occasional transfer.
Transfer Form
And yes some balk at filing out a BOS but if that’s the case they can go buy a gun from someone else.
MN Statutes
OK. I stand corrected in regards to pistols and “assault rifles” But it seems you can still transfer a shotgun or a hunting type rifle to someone you don’t know, and can transfer a pistol or “assault” rifle if you check ID.
By collectable I mean firearms that are not fully automatic that are legally classified as “curios and relics”.
So taking everything into acount this is my understanding:
A dealer (generally a type 1 or 2 FFL) needs to do a NICS check and log the ID of any purchaser. Dealers can buy any firearm from a wholesaler.
A collector (such as myself) with a type 3 FFL needs to log the ID of any purchaser of any firearm classified as a curio and relic. Collectors can only buy curios and relics from wholesalers. Collectors may, of course, also own modern firearms but no special privleges or requirments apply to them that do not apply to a non-FFL holder.
A non FFL holder may not buy any firearm from a wholesaler. They may sell to anyone without verifiying ID except if it’s a pistol or “assault” rifle.
he said “layman.” I don’t think having machining equipment and the ability to manufacture a working auto sear fits the definition of “layman.”
and as already said buying an auto-sear is legally the same as buying a complete automatic weapon. You’d better have the proper license.
In my experience, very easy. I have bought guns from individuals just carrying them around. I don’t know the legality of it, but from a practical standpoint, it’s easy.
I have bought handguns at the last three gun shows I attended. At each sale, the dealer at the table had me fill out a BATF form 4473 and show my state firearm purchase permit.
The state permit is available at the County Sheriff’s office for $5.00 and is essentially a document stating that I have already passed the background check. There is legislation in the works to allow dealers to accept state concealed weapons permits as well as the state purchase permit.
As I’ve said, I’ve seen the blueprints for a drop-in auto sear. You can probably find them online, or else buy the book Full-Auto Volume One. Here’s what one looks like.
IANA machinist. (Cite 1, Cite2) I am a ‘layman’. Given enough time and patience (plus the desire to and a disregard for the law and my own future), I could probably construct an auto sear with a hack saw, a file, and a drill. I think anyone with the same tools we all have around the house or garage could make one. No special machining equipment required. I think that fits the definition of ‘layman’.
Of course a layman would have to buy the other (M-16) parts.
Under Federal law one must be 18 to possess a handgun. One must be 21 to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer. So an 18 year old can receive a handgun as a gift from their parents, but can’t go out and buy one themselves. :rolleyes:
Some states have higher age limits for handgun possession. Here in Wisconsin one cannot get a concealed carry license until they are 21, but there is no law against an 18 year old openly carrying. And since November open carry has been codified (meaning the law recognizes it as legal, and not a violation of any law). That codification came of the heels of court rulings against several police agencies, and a pro-open carry ruling by the State Attorney General.
HERE are some maps that may answer some questions.