# How Easy is it to Judge-Shop in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147 "2022-09-24T15:08:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/1 "2022-09-24T15:08:26Z")
The reason I’m asking is the Trump legal team’s successful ploy of getting a particularly favourable judge, Judge Cannon, sitting on their application, by filing their materials in her sub-district (if I’ve understood correctly?) Is that common? easy to do? is there a difference between federal and state courts in this regard? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/2 "2022-09-24T15:22:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Is that common? easy to do? is there a difference between federal and state courts in this regard? In the Western District of Washington (where I’m most familiar) there are two courthouses, one in Seattle and one in Tacoma. You have to file in the division specified by where the action arose or where the defendant resides. It’s Local Civil Rule 3(e) if you want to look it up. There are several judges in each division, but the Seattle ones were generally considered better for plaintiffs than the Tacoma ones. In most cases, you wouldn’t have discretion about where to file. You couldn’t do what Trump did, although I guess you could say that the U.S. Government is present in every division and can be sued anywhere. In State court, there is sometimes a choice about which country to file in (but not always). We take that into consideration. But we don’t do it on the basis of judge shopping, as there is no way to know which judge you’ll be assigned to in any particular county. We do it based on the jury pool. The other complicating factor for someone trying to judge shop is that the larger counties re-assign judges from time to time, moving between civil and criminal dockets. So, you could have a judge you like for 6 months and then get transferred. In Federal Court it occasionally happens, but not nearly as common. (although I had a case transferred three times in Federal Court last year–no reason given) In our state court (again, Washington) each party has the right to remove one judge without reason, so I guess that’s a form of judge shopping. Federal Court has no similar rule. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/3 "2022-09-24T17:15:15Z")
If there are local rules directing where an application is to be made, then how did the Trump team manage to file at a court point about 50 miles away from Mar-a-Lago? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/4 "2022-09-24T17:33:42Z")
It would be a sad day when a lawyer cannot find a tenous reason to file in a forum of their convenience. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/5 "2022-09-24T17:40:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If there are local rules directing where an application is to be made, then how did the Trump team manage to file at a court point about 50 miles away from Mar-a-Lago? Each district has their own local rules. I haven’t checked Florida ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/6 "2022-09-24T18:58:55Z")
Same deal in the county where I worked in California. Parties could “kick” any judge for no reason one time, but they had to live with the assigned judge they got if they did that. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/7 "2022-09-24T19:00:04Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > but they had to live with the assigned judge they got if they did that. And the reassignment process was always a bit murky. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/8 "2022-09-24T19:05:56Z")
It was. During my time, there were a couple judges who were unpopular due to their lack of experience in criminal law. The prosecutors and defense attorneys would conspire work together to each kick a judge if the assignments went to one or both of the unpopular judges, in the hope they would be assigned to a courtroom with a more experienced criminal judge. I don’t blame them for that, but it presented some problems for our bench as a whole: How do inexperienced judges doing criminal trials gain experience if no one will let them try their cases? I’m sure it was entirely arbitrary but a few times, attorneys doing this were assigned to a visiting judge who was known to fall asleep during long stretches of proceedings. It slowed down the number of kicks. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/9 "2022-09-24T19:06:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Parties could “kick” any judge for no reason one time I’ve never heard of such a thing. 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/10 "2022-09-24T19:10:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve never heard of such a thing. 🤨 - > **[Peremptory Challenges to a Judge in California | Stimmel Law](https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/peremptory-challenges-judge-california)** > > The danger that a judge may be prejudiced against a particular party for whatever reason has caused the legislature of California to allow each party a right to challenge a judge assigned to a case for any or no reason…a peremptory challenge similar... > California Code of Civil Procedure Section 170.6 allows a party who timely files an “affidavit of prejudice” to disqualify a judge without any showing of cause. The affidavit of prejudice is not contestable and the disqualification of the judge is automatic. (CCP §170.6(a)) > > However, only one such peremptory challenge is allowed per side. (CCP § 170.6(a)(3)) Note a peremptory challenge under CCP §170.6 is not the same as a motion to disqualify a judge by a party or an attorney, i.e., a challenge for cause which is discussed in the Code at CCP §170.1. Unless you were just funnin’ with me, taking the “kick” part literally. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/11 "2022-09-24T19:19:15Z")
It wasn’t the “kick”. Up here, with judges, you get what you get and you don’t get upset. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/12 "2022-09-24T19:21:20Z")
Trump filed in the Southern District of Florida (which covers Mar-A-Lago) and the case was randomly assigned to Cannon. Whatever you think of the case, it wasn’t venue shopping. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/13 "2022-09-24T19:21:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It wasn’t the “kick”. So you actually thought I would make such a misleading assertion without a basis? Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/14 "2022-09-24T19:25:29Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Trump filed in the Southern District of Florida (which covers Mar-A-Lago) and the case was randomly assigned to Cannon. Whatever you think of the case, it wasn’t venue shopping. It’s a big District. But he filed 70 miles from Mar-a-lago. Why? Attempted judge shopping. In this case, successful, but not always. > **[Southern%20District%20Map.pdf](https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/sites/flsd/files/Southern%20District%20Map.pdf)** > > 40.66 KB ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/15 "2022-09-24T19:26:21Z")
No, I’m not disbelieving you or critiquing you in any way; sorry if it seemed that way. I’m just very surprised that such a thing exists. I’ve never heard of it before. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/16 "2022-09-24T19:28:02Z")
Rules are different all over, that’s sure. Thanks for clarifying. I hope I satisfied your skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/17 "2022-09-24T19:34:05Z")
That’s why I started this thread; to find out how it works down south. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/18 "2022-09-24T19:37:27Z")
In a county with a small bench like the one I worked in, it definitely qualified as judge-shopping. The unpopular judges would sit knitting booties while other judges picked up the slack. CCP §170.6(a) occasionally played hell with our trial assignments. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/19 "2022-09-24T19:48:16Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s a big District. > > But he filed 70 miles from Mar-a-lago. Why? Attempted judge shopping. In this case, successful, but not always. I only know what I’ve read in the papers, but the case was still assigned randomly, correct? What difference did it make where he filed? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147/20 "2022-09-24T19:50:36Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I only know what I’ve read in the papers, but the case was still assigned randomly, correct? What difference did it make where he filed?- Certain judges are assigned to certain divisions. You’re _much_ more likely to get Judge Cannon if you file in her division. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-judge-shop-in-the-us/972147.md?page=2)