# How easy is it to steal a vehicle with Push to Start ignition? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562 "2023-01-21T12:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/21 "2023-01-21T18:37:19Z")
> [@chela](#): > > And you can’t drive away without the fob inside. My daughter did last week. She had laid the fob on top of the car and forgot them before she drove off. The car didn’t beep the warning until she was far away. That’s a mistake she’ll never make again. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/22 "2023-01-21T18:42:11Z")
The biggest increase in thefts is currently due to the Kia and Hyundai usb cord vulnerability and the TikTok challenges. Kids as young as 11 have stolen them by watching the videos. Hyundai has come out with fixes but Kia is still working on it. There was an article in WaPo last week about this. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/23 "2023-01-21T19:00:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > A bit of a tangent - can someone explain to me WHY this push-to-start thing has become so prevalent? My last car came with one. Didn’t set out for a PTS car, it just happened to have it. I fell in love with it and now with the car I have on order, I got the upgraded trim just to have PTS. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/24 "2023-01-21T19:01:13Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > … > Here’s an article I found about the nature of the problem, with some fairly useless preventive tips; basically, install updates. > … Cite please. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/25 "2023-01-21T19:05:36Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Not true of my 2010 Lexus. Fortunately, I haven’t found this out the hard way. Luckily, we were across the street from each other … ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/26 "2023-01-21T19:23:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > > [@Procrustus](#): > > > > For all the talk of car theft, in my 61 years on Earth I’ve never known anyone who had a car stolen. (ETA: and during my time as a public defender, I never represented a car thief. ) > > I did. In Cambridge in 1972. On Memorial Drive, by MIT. Why would MIT steal a car? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/27 "2023-01-21T19:25:26Z")
Ever check out the tuition cost? They steal everything else. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/28 "2023-01-21T19:26:36Z")
The best solution to having your car stolen: Own a Pontiac Aztek. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/29 "2023-01-21T19:35:39Z")
Whatasmatta? You can’t read my mind? > **[Modern cars: A growing bundle of security vulnerabilities - Help Net Security](https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/12/14/modern-car-vulnerabilities/)** > > In this interview with Help Net Security, Laura Hoffner talks about modern car vulnerabilities and how to protect users. (Sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/30 "2023-01-21T20:22:59Z")
Keyless entry & start are one of those previously stupid pointless things I now can’t live without > [@pullin](#): > > My neighbor (3 doors down) recently lost a new car to this method. It was in the driveway and disappeared the first week it was home. I wouldn’t rule out an inside job from the dealer. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/31 "2023-01-21T20:33:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > My late spouse shot him with our crossbow, which had a wonderfully discouraging effect upon the miscreant. Did the bolt not go through the guy and damage the car? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/32 "2023-01-21T20:33:51Z")
It’s real easy to leave your fob in the car. If this is the first keyless car you’ve owned, there are a lot of new habits to set. If someone screwed up and left the fob in the car in the driveway and the car disappeared later, do you think they’d admit that to the insurer or the cops? Or would they say something more face-saving, something that would not void their insurance coverage for an expensive new car now formerly theirs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/33 "2023-01-21T20:34:50Z")
One of my first thoughts is the story II heard of keys being similar do that they will unlock and start another car. Is the fob transmitting a unique key, perhaps the VIN? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/34 "2023-01-21T20:41:56Z")
Fobs use a rolling code. No two button pushes on your fob produce the same signal. Simple replay attacks don’t work, at least not if the car’s software is done decently and hasn’t already been compromised by a trojan. The real problem nowadays is everybody has a computer in their pocket with all the receivers necessary to spy on those signals. And all the computing horsepower to attack the cipher systems used. And the transmitters necessary to transmit faked signals. Once somebody has the right evil software on their phone, they have a universal key to every car that uses a flavor of coding the evil app recognizes. The only thing that keeps the universal key from actually working is the quality of the rolling code algorithms and the cryptography. Some are good. Apparently some are not. For old-fashioned cars with metal keys, locksmiths have a tool called a “lockpick”. Which is also a universal key, net of some skilled fiddling. And with some more modern picking tools, rather unskilled fiddling. Old wine in a new bottle. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/35 "2023-01-21T21:24:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > For all the talk of car theft, in my 61 years on Earth I’ve never known anyone who had a car stolen. (ETA: and during my time as a public defender, I never represented a car thief. ) Me, my 1989 Honda Civic in 1993 out of my garage. Given the car didn’t have so much as power windows, it certainly wasn’t by hacking my key fob. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/36 "2023-01-21T21:43:23Z")
I once got into a stranger’s car and drove away. It was the same make, colour and model as mine and my keys had no problem opening the door and starting the engine. I keep my current car’s key fob in a faraday box. It amazes me that I can unlock the doors from 20 or 30 metres. I believe that a large number of car thefts are achieved by breaking into houses and stealing the keys or fobs. I think that the best way to stay safe is to choose a car that is not popular with thieves. They want high-end cars which are profitable to them. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/37 "2023-01-21T21:54:42Z")
Years ago I drove a relative beater. I lived in a decent neighborhood and was not greatly concerned about crime against my car. So I left it unlocked in my driveway, figuring that if somebody wanted to rifle the storage compartments I’d rather they do that without needing to break a window or screwdriver a lock. Had anyone done so they’d have found a large pocket knife, a cheap flashlight & some maps, so no great loss if they took the lot. Woke up one day and went out in my garage. Was surprised to find the remote-controlled electric garage door open. Was upset to find somebody had gone through the shelves where my various power tools were and made off with a bunch of them. Called the cops. Turns out a common thief MO is to drive around looking for unlocked cars, then poke around in the interior for a garage door opener, press the button, and grab whatever loot appears before that convenient garage door opener’s light times out. Oops on me. Anyhow, lots of people have modern cars that have built-in garage door opener buttons. Lots of other people have garage door remotes in their older cars. If that’s you, lock your car at home. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/38 "2023-01-21T22:16:53Z")
On TV all you gotta do is reach under the steering column, connect two wires, and off you go. Was that ever true? I assume it is no longer so. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/39 "2023-01-21T23:03:32Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Keyless entry & start are one of those previously stupid pointless things I now can’t live without Yep. I got my first fobbed car just before my second kid was born. For me, it was weird the first few days, but then, with getting kids and groceries and stuff in and out of the car, a godsend. It wasn’t just a minor convenience; it was a _major_ help. We rented a car last month visiting my in-laws in Phoenix, and it came with a key, and it just annoyed the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/40 "2023-01-21T23:07:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > On TV all you gotta do is reach under the steering column, connect two wires, and off you go. Was that ever true? I assume it is no longer so. No, but I attribute that to TV not giving out car theft lessons rather than not being true. because it sort of is true. For a pre-column lock car, all you need is a wire and a screwdriver. Open the hood, run a jumper from the battery to the + wire on the coil, for power, and short the starter solenoid. Particularly easy for a Ford, which conveniently mounts the solenoid on the fender, rather than on the starter itself. Make sure it is in neutral! You can do it by doing the same thing on the key wiring, but you have to know which wires to jump. The way TV does it is complete BS. Cars don’t have three feet of wire to pull out, and insulation doesn’t just magically fall away when you touch it. You need a cutter and a stripper. My 90’s Jeep Cherokee was literally stolen with a hammer and a screwdriver. When I got the vehicle back, I got a free screwdriver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562.md?page=3)