# How easy is it to steal a vehicle with Push to Start ignition? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562 "2023-01-21T12:34:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/81 "2023-01-23T19:11:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In both my Mazda and my wife’s Hyundai, there’s a little latch on the fob you slide to get you a key to enter the car. I’ve had that with prior cars. Neither of our current cars have that. It’s a little unsettling. However, we do have the ability to unlock with the app on our phones in an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/82 "2023-01-23T19:13:22Z")
Yeah, our Hyundai (2020) does have the app, as well, which allows you to unlock, but also the key. The Mazda (2014) only the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/83 "2023-01-23T22:22:31Z")
I am really getting tired of this notion that our phones should be the be-all and end-all for everything in our lives. And if you lose your phone you’re really screwed, Mind you, I do own a smartphone and I do have some affection for it. I just don’t want _everything_ in my life to be on it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/84 "2023-01-23T22:56:14Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The whole point of keyless entry/ignition is that you never need to take out the fob to get into your car or start it. I wear rather close fitting pants and hate sitting with crap in my pockets. Doubly so in deep bucket-style sports car seats. So after the car is unlocked by fob proximity and the door opened, I use my now-free hands to pull my mobile and the stupid-huge car fob w home e-key & mailbox key attached out of my pockets. Those go in wells in the console as I sit down. The process reverses to get out of the car. Shut down the car, release the seat belt & de-tangle it from my left arm, let it retract, open the door, then pick up keys & phone, climb out, stuff those items in my pants pockets and walk away. For sure if instead I was a woman carrying a purse, the fob and phone would never leave the purse. IMO the fob doesn’t need to be much bigger than a USB stick. They’re huge, heavy, and thick so women can find them in their purses, and so the manufacturers’ stylists can give the customers something substantial and luxurious looking / feeling. I’d much rather carry a gizmo the size & heft of a single mailbox key that opens all my locks by brainwave or something. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/85 "2023-01-23T23:44:07Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > For sure if instead I was a woman carrying a purse, the fob and phone would never leave the purse. It’s never too late to start. My brother the rocket scientist has carried a small black leather Coach shoulder purse since he got out of the army. He keeps all his nerdy geek stuff in it, including slide rules and fine point Jotter pens. His wallet is in there somewhere and now his smartphone, although he grumbles about having to carry one around. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/86 "2023-01-24T00:57:51Z")
And they need to be big enough to carry (at least) a 2032 wafer battery. All this shit takes power. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/87 "2023-01-24T02:19:23Z")
Too big and it’s a pain in the ass. Too small and people keep losing them. It’s a fine line the designers have to follow. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/88 "2023-01-24T02:27:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I am really getting tired of this notion that our phones should be the be-all and end-all for everything in our lives. And if you lose your phone you’re really screwed, I mean, it’s really no worse than before. If in the key-only entry you lose your key and locked your car, you’re screwed. If you lock your keys in the car, you’re screwed. Here, you’re not automatically screwed. You can use your phone. I suppose the only issue is if your fob dies AND your phone is dead or lost, then you’re screwed, but that’s pretty unlucky and makes up a smaller percentage of possibilities than Ye Old Ways. Plus you should have a backup fob anyway. All the cars we’ve bought always came with two. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/89 "2023-01-24T02:40:40Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I suppose the only issue is if your fob dies AND your phone is dead or lost, then you’re screwed The Tesla Model 3/Y use the phone as the primary, and have an NFC card as a backup. Seems like the best of all worlds: 99% of the time the phone is fine, but if the battery’s dead or whatever, you use the card. The card doesn’t have batteries and is cheap to replace or get dupes of. It’s just like a credit card and fits in your wallet. You can also use it if you’re exercising or something and you want something super lightweight. It has to be swiped directly on the car so it’s less convenient than a remote fob, but for emergency/rare use, it’s just fine. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/90 "2023-01-24T03:45:48Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Seems like the best of all worlds: 99% of the time the phone is fine, but if the battery’s dead or whatever, you use the card You’re using some non-literal meaning of the phrase “battery’s dead”, right? Because a truly dead battery can’t power the RFID interrogator to talk to the NFC card. Implying there’s some reserve power for the security system. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/91 "2023-01-24T03:51:26Z")
I meant the phone battery. If the car battery is dead (either the 12v or the main battery), there are other options. The NFC card is also convenient if you need to loan it to someone you don’t _entirely_ trust (like a valet). ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/92 "2023-01-24T03:54:54Z")
Thanks for explaining that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/93 "2023-01-24T09:20:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I mean, it’s really no worse than before. If in the key-only entry you lose your key and locked your car, you’re screwed. If you lock your keys in the car, you’re screwed. There is this thing called a “spare key”. In fact, for a couple years I worked at a place where one of my tasks was making duplicate keys for various things. My truck is a key-start, but does have a fob that will lock/unlock the doors - but you can’t use it to start the vehicle, you need the key for that. Of course, no system is fool proof. But, you know, if someone takes my car keys they don’t also get access to my bank account or the ability to impersonate me via messaging or social media like what can happen with a stolen phone. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/94 "2023-01-24T09:36:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My last car came with one. Didn’t set out for a PTS car, it just happened to have it. I fell in love with it and now with the car I have on order, I got the upgraded trim just to have PTS. I had several of them as rentals. They are convenient - don’t have to fish around in the purse or pocket. And our newish (2 years old) car has a seat position memory - it recognizes my key and adjusts the seat as soon as I open the door, which is kind of cool. They are indeed harder to steal by hot-wiring, as I understand, but yes, the fobs can be reached from inside the house with a relay device that basically repeats the signal from inside the house, so it’s strong enough for the car’s system to recognize. I gather the thieves can drive the car away, but then if they stop the engine, cannot restart it easily. I don’t love the fact that the fobs chew through batteries - we had to replace the batteries in ours, in our 2 year old car. Are any cars sold nowadays that do NOT have keyless entry? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/95 "2023-01-24T10:28:07Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The Tesla Model 3/Y use the phone as the primary, and have an NFC card as a backup. Seems like the best of all worlds: 99% of the time the phone is fine, but if the battery’s dead or whatever, you use the card. The card doesn’t have batteries and is cheap to replace or get dupes of. It’s just like a credit card and fits in your wallet. Of course, for those of us whose “wallet” is one of those elastic card pouches on the back of the phone, losing the phone also loses the NFC card. There’s just no winning with some people. 😉 I admit this is a tough design problem with so many use cases and so many customer preferences. I used to live where I had combination locks on my residence doors and walked virtually everywhere. My phone, with one credit card and a $50 bill in the little silicone pouch was the only thing in my pockets. Just about perfect. If I could have reduced the phone to a retina projector / mike / speaker built into my sunglasses it really would have been perfect. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/96 "2023-01-24T10:53:19Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > What gets me is that from the same page it shows that forced rape and murder are up 80-90% since 2014. WTF, we are killing and raping each other at alarming rates compared to car theft. Believe me, I (OP) am alarmed about that too. And have gone to considerable effort to guard against it. I’d like to discuss some of this too, but it intersects with a lot of strong beliefs and tends to get off track. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/97 "2023-01-24T11:03:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > There’s just no winning with some people. If you’re really going for ultra-minimalism, you can take this approach: > **[Good Luck to This Man Who Became His Own Tesla Key](https://www.curbed.com/2022/08/brandon-dalaly-tesla-subdermal-chip.html)** > > The doors can be fickle. > “The whole idea was that I would have my house key in my left hand and my car key in my right hand,” Dalaly [told](https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-owner-implants-a-chip-to-unlock-his-car-and-more/) Teslarati of his two implants. In a [video on his YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/blSJQ3JlA20), you can see a piercing artist slide the chip with a Tesla app under the skin of Dalaly’s right hand, between his ring and pinkie fingers. It seems the tech isn’t quite perfected yet. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/98 "2023-01-24T13:05:44Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There is this thing called a “spare key” I know. And there’s spare fobs. And you don’t have to have the app on your phone if you’re worried about security – we didn’t for the first few months. A later post did say they have a car where the phone is the primary means of starting the car, but even there there is a card you can use for the same purpose. I’m not particularly a fan of the phone being the primary way of getting in, given my propensity for losing charge on my phone (I remember being stuck in a parking garage for fifteen minutes once waiting for my phone to recharge enough so I could get out of there, so I could get the QR code for the exit scan, though I’m sure I would have managed it somehow otherwise.) Overall, the car app is convenient, as it allows for remote start, status information, and even tracking (so if you get your car stolen, you can help police locate it.) As long as phones aren’t the only way in and optional, I don’t much see an issue. Some sort of proximity sensor entry method or any method that doesn’t require me fishing keys out is pretty much ideal for me. And I have no concerns about my car being stolen in re: keys vs fobs. It’s not a property I’m protective of. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/99 "2023-01-24T15:06:58Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I used to live where I had combination locks on my residence doors and walked virtually everywhere. My phone, with one credit card and a $50 bill in the little silicone pouch was the only thing in my pockets. Just about perfect. If I could have reduced the phone to a retina projector / mike / speaker built into my sunglasses it really would have been perfect. And this is why I love my Apple Watch. I can head out with my watch and my Bluetooth headphones and can be entirely covered. What that watch won’t do is unlock my wife’s Tesla, which seems like a blind spot to me. And somewhat on topic, the ease of entry and exit with her Tesla has spoiled me. There has been several times I have walked away from my car, with its “traditional” keyless fob, leaving it unlocked with the fob in the cup holder, ala @LSLGuy. Fortunately, either my area is lower crime than the breathless posts on Nextdoor would indicate, or the local thieves are just super non-observant. I love that I can simply walk away from her car and it will not only lock but roll up the windows. I want my car to do that. Would be even better if it would also put the convertible top up when I forget, but that might be a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562/100 "2023-01-24T18:36:50Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I love that I can simply walk away from her car and it will not only lock but roll up the windows. I want my car to do that. Would be even better if it would also put the convertible top up when I forget, but that might be a stretch. What you want is the Batmobile. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lUPudZd3oI4/hqdefault.jpg "Batman 1989 brief clip") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPudZd3oI4) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-easy-is-it-to-steal-a-vehicle-with-push-to-start-ignition/978562.md?page=6)