# How effective are martial arts in the real world? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424 "2024-04-17T19:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/1 "2024-04-17T19:37:38Z")
YouTube has been pushing some Karate Kid clips at me recently, where the Master easily defeats the Bad Guys. But how realistic is this? I am sure there are some techniques which might work sometimes. Perhaps knowing where a vulnerable nerve plexus can be hit, or how to grab and twist a limb to immobilise it? But generally, a good big one beats a little good little one, just by overall power. Especially if there are several Bad ones involved. Personally of course, my response to any fight is to run like hell… ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/2 "2024-04-17T20:11:03Z")
One part of martial arts includes what could be called fighting practice. So, yes, someone who has practiced fighting can be expected to fight better than someone who has not. You may also wish to compare and contrast martial arts and combat sports. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/3 "2024-04-17T20:12:53Z")
From what I’ve read - and this applies just as much to non-martial arts as to martial arts - a lot of the time the victim is overwhelmed by **surprise** - despite having taken all those classes in self-defense, judo, karate, taekwondo or whatever. The reason is because when you’re in the dojo or classroom, you’re in a safe, rehearsed setting. The instructor isn’t going to sneak attack you. Nobody’s going to genuinely try to hurt you with a knife or anything. After all, they’d get sued. But in real life, it’s not like that at all. The attacker is mentally prepared, you’re not. You’re surprised and frozen or panicked. The attacker hits or stabs you with far more force than your instructor ever would. So, no, I’d bet that even having a black belt in karate isn’t necessarily going to help much. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/4 "2024-04-17T20:13:51Z")
One thing every type of fight training prepares you for is taking a punch. That alone will make you a better fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/5 "2024-04-17T20:22:42Z")
Which martial art and in what situation? It’s a pretty broad question. In recent years there has been a bit of a reckoning, with “ancient, revered” styles often being exposed as being useless for self defence in real, or sports combat situations. Of course this doesn’t mean those styles have no benefit; there are many reasons to practice and enjoy martial arts beyond actual fighting. But many of the claims were debunked. But as I say, the situation matters. In the early days of mixed martial arts, the idea that grappling and hold-based styles were most effective took hold. But a 1v1 bout in an octagon is an atypical situation. In real life maybe eg there’s two guys coming at you and you can strike one and run, but trying to get one on the ground to tap out wouldn’t be a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/6 "2024-04-17T20:26:56Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > One thing every type of fight training prepares you for is taking a punch. That alone will make you a better fighter. The mythos is that the Real Guru doesn’t ever take a punch, I thought? He is always a hair away when it swings, because he has read his opponent and anticipated their action? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/7 "2024-04-17T20:34:00Z")
I do not have the experience to properly answer this question. If someone has a gun, than fancy footwork is probably only so useful. There is value in knowing what to do in a controlled situation, consistent practice, building confidence and demonstrating real abilities in limited situations. But with a group of people, just getting out of a situation may be the wisest and best realistic goal despite extra training. These skills might assist in that. If things are exactly the same for you as they would have been in feudal Japan, your odds are even better. Taking on a bunch of strangers implies a lot of unknown unknowns, and one would be foolish to do that these days given alternatives and laws and social customs, no matter how much mustered bravado there is or how effortless it looks in a movie. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/8 "2024-04-17T20:36:46Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > If someone has a gun, Gimme three steps, as Skynyrd has it… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/9 "2024-04-17T20:55:41Z")
Everyone is a beginner at some point, and beginners are practice targets. My brother took karate lessions in Korea while he was in the service and told me he got beat on every day. More than anything he learned not to get phased when someone struck you. I took Judo myself and the first thing they teach you is how to fall. I took a lot of falls. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/10 "2024-04-17T21:56:12Z")
From today’s news. [Marquess of Queensberry, 94, reveals he fought off mugger with judo move near west London home | Evening Standard](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/marquess-queensbury-david-douglas-judo-hammersmith-b1151978.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/11 "2024-04-17T22:05:02Z")
I had a Filipino friend who knew some sort of martial art from that part of the world. His answer to “what would you do” was “I would back way”. When asked why, his answer was “Because I don’t know what you know.” His answer to “What if I have a weapon” was “I would run.” I saw him spar once and would not want to be on the receiving end of whatever technique he knew. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/12 "2024-04-17T22:20:46Z")
Are you including self-defense techniques in your definition, even if they forgo style for pragmatism? Because I’m pretty sure that what I learned when I took self defense classes would have a chance of working - gouging out eyes, hard kick to the balls, etc. Such moves would obviously be disallowed in a tournament, but you are asking about the “real world.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/13 "2024-04-17T22:59:40Z")
I did full contact MMA/streetfighting for quite a few years. My instructors repeatedly stressed that no one wins a fight, and that the best response was generally Nike-do (run away)! I was pretty good with a knife, but I didn’t ever get in the habit of carrying, b/c my job took me in and out of secured federal buildings all the time. We believed we had to train constantly to keep our instincts and reactions at peak. You gotta keep paying the premiums for the insurance to be there when you need it. And, yeah, learning that you are able to keep going after taking a punch is important. I was pretty constantly alert to potential threats everywhere I went - not a great mindset. But KNOWING I could kick most peoples’ asses freed me from having to get into pissing contests with them. At one point after I had incurred a couple of fractures during training I realized I could eliminate nearly 100% of potential threats by not going out to rowdy bars late at night, not getting drunk, not flipping off people in cars… And NO martial art works against a gun. So I quit. Isolated self defense classes are pretty much worthless other than if they convince you to be more aware. It is easy to say, “gouge eyes/kick balls.” But the eyes can be an awfully small moving target and guys tend to instinctively guard their balls. So, like any other athletic endeavor, you gotta put in the reps both slow and at speed. One of my schools stressed HKE - Headbutts/Knees/Elbows - so we trained gouging eyes and groin kicks ALL THE TIME. (Hell, one class we were tearing raw meat with our teeth to practice biting (Kinamutay). That was FUN!) And you want to train in various settings - in alleys, on stairs, in elevators, when sitting in a car, against multiple opponents… I trained with many folk from single disciplines. No single traditional martial art is good for all real world confrontations. IMO you want to train some form of striking, some weapons (stick and knife), and grappling. On edit, I guess I may not have answered the OP. Yes, you can train martial arts in a way that will make you a better fighter. And someone who s pretty high level at most striking arts will certainly handle themselves better than the non-trained victim, especially against an untrained attacker. But some martial arts are taught almost as glorified dance - or worse - are IMO BS. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/14 "2024-04-18T06:02:35Z")
Practicing martial arts can save your life. So can swimming. Or jogging, or biking, or aerobics. Or rowing. Or soccer. Or basketball. Or interpretive dance. > **[7 great reasons why exercise matters](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/fitness/in-depth/exercise/art-20048389)** > > Improve your heart health, mood, stamina and more with regular physical activity. About a decade ago I searched for articles on martial arts and self defense at a University library and couldn’t locate any. So as far as I know, research regarding the OP is thin on the ground. There are some more general findings though. In their review of the literature, O’Neal and Kaiser (2015) note the following: > Researchers generally agree that active rape resistance is effective for evading the completion of rape… Whereas fighting, fleeing, and screaming are all linked to a decreased likelihood of rape completion, less active verbal strategies such as reasoning, pleading, and crying, are associated with a higher likelihood of rape completion… However: > Unlike the largely consistent findings regarding resistance and rape avoidance, research results regarding the effect of resistance on injury avoidance is mixed. … > Some research has found that protective action during sexual assault increases the likelihood a victim will suffer an injury… , and some scholars have argued that forceful resistance is useless and sometimes dangerous … [but] Findings that indicate a positive relationship between rape resistance and injury may tell an incomplete story, as such research does not establish the sequencing of events; it is unclear whether rape resistance actions preceded or followed the suspect’s infliction of injury [and] studies have also found that resistance _reduces_ injury …and some have found _no significant effects_. Emphasis added. Consequences might also differ depending upon whether the victim knows the perp, or whether the situation is stranger-danger, on average. God damn it, we need to figure this out. From _Resistance Strategies and Sexual Assault Outcomes: Do Measurement Decisions Influence Empirical Findings?_ That’s some pretty mixed evidence I’d say. So what’s my takeaway? _Having options is a good thing._ Boys often learn how to throw punches. Woman -who generally have much more demanding self-defense challenges, assuming they’re not looking for trouble- are less likely to be exposed to informal training. So I would recommend a 2-4 hour self defense course (where you learn that punches are overrated) and get a chance to practice some effective techniques. That would take an afternoon. Taking it up a notch [model mugging self defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_Mugging) uses heavily padded instructors so participants can practice at full force against their attackers (generally with knees and elbow strikes). Basic courses can take place over 3 days. Recommended. You can also join a dojo. That will help with fitness and therefore improve life expectancy. In the dojo I attend, the self-defense component is taught separately from the sparring component. Techniques that work best for sport are different than techniques focused on battle. I’m a little dubious about being trained to be a great fighter: personally I’d rather use my voice and be a great retreater, a master at hand-over-my-wallet-jutsu. For example. But I’m a dude who is above school age and outside of law enforcement or the military. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/15 "2024-04-18T09:42:22Z")
In movie fights, everyone waits their turn, coming at the hero one at a time. In a real fight, they all jump on you at once and it probably doesn’t matter what kind of belt you have. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/16 "2024-04-18T09:51:17Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > In a real fight Really, it comes down to “Are you fighting, or defending yourself?” In a fight, you’re standing your ground, and trying to beat the other person. That may at times be the way to defend yourself (if escape and evasion is unavailable), but in most real-life situations, the proper goal of self-defense is to just get out of the situation in as close to an unharmed condition as possible. Whether or not the other person is harmed is irrelevant. Try beating up someone who just refuses to stand still some time. It’s actually quite hard. You spend a disproportionate amount of effort in just trying to keep them where you can punch/kick/choke/whatever them. The most important “martial arts” skill in self defense is learning how to break someone’s hold on you, so if they grab you by the wrist or some such thing, you can break that hold and open the space between you. Don’t get pinned down. And such skills are really, really easy to teach and remember, compared to “fighting” skills, in which you’re trying to beat your opponent, not just evade them. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/17 "2024-04-18T10:11:15Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > … but in most real-life situations, the proper goal of self-defense is to just get out of the situation in as close to an unharmed condition as possible. Whether or not the other person is harmed is irrelevant. Very good point. I’ve had to explain to clients charged with criminal assault before, that their first duty is to get out of the situation if at all possible. If that’s not possible, then fine, punch him in the face, kick him in the nuts, whatever is necessary to get _you_ out of the situation. But the ultimate goal is to get out of the situation in as close to an unharmed condition as possible, and get the hell away. “But I needed to teach him a lesson!” No, client, that’s for the courts to do. Your job is to get the hell out of the situation when you can. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/18 "2024-04-18T12:01:03Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Woman -who generally have much more demanding self-defense challenges, assuming they’re not looking for trouble- are less likely to be exposed to informal training. So I would recommend a 2-4 hour self defense course (where you learn that punches are overrated) and get a chance to practice some effective techniques. That would take an afternoon. I taught several such courses, and IMO they are of limited practical use. If I were a woman, I would learn how to use a knife, carry one, and train regularly. Just MO. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/19 "2024-04-18T12:07:38Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I taught several such courses, and IMO they are of limited practical use. What sort of things did you teach? I taught lots of such courses during my University days, and found several things were of great utility (see my post above). ---
**Author:** ![teelabrown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teelabrown/32/8412_2.png) [@teelabrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teelabrown)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424/20 "2024-04-18T12:13:52Z")
Ha. This thread reminds me of that funny fight scene in _Once Upon A Time In Hollywood_: [Stuntman vs. Bruce Lee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzVoT9LxiNk) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-effective-are-martial-arts-in-the-real-world/1000424.md?page=2)