# How egotistical must an entity be to need to be worshiped **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778 "2019-05-10T14:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/21 "2019-05-10T17:19:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > To paraphrase James Tiberius Kirk, “What does God need with a world full of worshipers?” When you are all-powerful, why would you need your ego boosted by lesser beings telling you what you already know. In fact, how could a being that powerful even have an ego to boo? There are many interpretations of the act of worship, and I don’t take a position on whether God exists or religion is good and bad. But let me give you my understanding of how others feel about this topic. It is my understanding in mainstream monotheism that worshiping God directly improves your soul. The act of worship is less about God being egotistical than God being altruistic. You are literally inviting God into your soul. The act of worship is also an act of ultimate humility and piety, which again directly improves your soul and therefore your character. Not only that, congregated worship is an essential part of many religious communities. Nobody denies the powerful positive effect of belonging to a community, and congregated worship lays the groundwork for a religious community. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/22 "2019-05-10T17:21:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Well, I think you poisoned the well a bit in the OP, when you framed it in terms of God/gods being egotistical. > > Some will say that, when people worship God, it’s for their benefit/sake, not God’s. > > But maybe being worshiped does make God feel good, in a way that’s analogous to what we humans feel when someone expresses their love or praise or appreciation of us. That’s not (necessarily) egotism. God has emotions that we can change? This doesn’t seem to correspond with the idea of a being that is the source of all emotions. I have as much trouble thinking we can make such a being happier as I do with the idea that we can somehow disappoint a being that already knows our every secret thought and action, from birth to death. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/23 "2019-05-10T17:24:34Z")
The sense I have gotten over many years is that the nature and attributes of God require worship. Not that He demands it, but that He must be worshiped because of what He is. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/24 "2019-05-10T17:26:14Z")
I was under the impression that many gods, including the god of the Bible, are pretty humanlike in their moods and behaviors. Based on the way the bible typically characterizes his interactions with people, one gets the distinct impression that he considers it a respect thing - the same way that your boss at work expects you to let him speak first, without interrupting him, and preceding your queries to him with animal sacrifices. The main reason that a reasonable person might want respect would be to keep order. The god of the bible struck me as a bit less reasonable than that, so my guess, as an outside observer, would be that it had more to do with ego/insecurity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/25 "2019-05-10T17:28:15Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > It is my understanding in mainstream monotheism that worshiping God directly improves your soul. The act of worship is less about God being egotistical than God being altruistic. You are literally inviting God into your soul. The act of worship is also an act of ultimate humility and piety, which again directly improves your soul and therefore your character. Not only that, congregated worship is an essential part of many religious communities. Nobody denies the powerful positive effect of belonging to a community, and congregated worship lays the groundwork for a religious community. > > ~Max If God is literally everything, and if God is the creator of souls, then what caused him to leave the soul in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/26 "2019-05-10T17:28:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > God has emotions that we can change? This doesn’t seem to correspond with the idea of a being that is the source of all emotions. I have as much trouble thinking we can make such a being happier as I do with the idea that we can somehow disappoint a being that already knows our every secret thought and action, from birth to death. The god of the bible is _definitely_ written as an entity that has emotions. It’s also very explicit that human behavior can effect his moods. Usually by pissing him off, but he’s been stated as being pleased about things people do too. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/27 "2019-05-10T17:36:32Z")
Isn’t this just a by product of paganism? When there were many gods, they had to compete for your attention in the form of worship. Now there’s no competition, but the worship still remains. Mainly because worship had become so embedded into how they relate to deities. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/28 "2019-05-10T17:56:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If God is literally everything, and if God is the creator of souls, then what caused him to leave the soul in the first place? I think it was the original sin. You might get a better answer by asking a theologian. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/29 "2019-05-10T18:05:58Z")
How do you get get to be powerful other than by gaining worshippers? Take the state for example. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/30 "2019-05-10T18:07:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If God is literally everything, and if God is the creator of souls, then what caused him to leave the soul in the first place? In Judaism and Islam, I believe this would just be normal sins accrued during the course of one’s life. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/31 "2019-05-10T18:10:58Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > How do you get get to be powerful other than by gaining worshippers? Take the state for example. I believe the premise is that this god is already all-powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/32 "2019-05-10T18:13:42Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > In Judaism and Islam, I believe this would just be normal sins accrued during the course of one’s life. > > ~Max This actually makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/33 "2019-05-10T19:57:37Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > This is the approach taken in the 2003 real-time strategy game _Age of Mythology_. > > ~Max And, to bring it back to references in the OP and an earlier literary source for the concept, the Star Trek episode [Who Mourns for Adonais](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Mourns_for_Adonais%3F). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/34 "2019-05-10T22:18:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > God has emotions that we can change? This doesn’t seem to correspond with the idea of a being that is the source of all emotions. I have as much trouble thinking we can make such a being happier as I do with the idea that we can somehow disappoint a being that already knows our every secret thought and action, from birth to death. It would also fall outside most Protestant belief. Protestant doctrine generally feels that nothing people can do can have an effect on God. Granted, they usually express this as saying people cannot save themselves from damnation by their own actions but the principle’s the same. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/35 "2019-05-11T09:16:12Z")
Worship does nothing to God, and he doesn’t need it. It’s purely for the sake of the worshipper himself. The worshipper benefits by cultivating his own love and devotion and spirituality. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/36 "2019-05-11T10:55:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > … I was wondering why any god worth worshipping would want all these people in this big expensive building singing “Alleluia”, instead of - say - DOING something to actually help people or make the world better. … “Two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.” - Madalyn Murray O’Hair ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/37 "2019-05-12T13:40:06Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Worship does nothing to God, and he doesn’t need it. It’s purely for the sake of the worshipper himself. The worshipper benefits by cultivating his own love and devotion and spirituality. And by getting something back from the Deity in return for worship, in intangible and tangible (if you believe some of the more blatant media preachers) ways. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/38 "2019-05-12T13:57:13Z")
Back when I was a Christian, I probably rationalized the whole “we must worship” thing (which did make me uncomfortable) with the idea that worship activity distracts people from doing bad things. If you’re worshipping, you aren’t gossipping, fighting, stealing, coverting, or killing. And worship makes you feel good so that you will keep coming back to church. The worship part of the service, which always involved really good music, was the only thing I liked about church as a kid. Take that away and church really would have been hell for me. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/39 "2019-05-12T15:09:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > To paraphrase James Tiberius Kirk, “What does God need with a world full of worshipers?” When you are all-powerful, why would you need your ego boosted by lesser beings telling you what you already know. In fact, how could a being that powerful even have an ego to boo? > [@rsat3acr](#): > > Because there is no God. A manmade creation has human failings. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sort of hoping that those who worship explain the need for/purpose of it. OK, I’m game. First, omit from consideration the notion of God as a personality who “wants” or “needs” anything. Quit psychoanalyzing God for a moment and shift the focus to yourself (or to me) as potential worshiper. What are the attitudes and emotions of a dedicated driven attorney towards Justice? The attorney in question may be fully familiar with anthropomorphized images of justice blindfolded and holding the scales, but is actually relating to Justice as more of an abstraction, but (on the other hand) does _not_ think of justice as "a cultural and social construct that doesn’t exist except in the sense of ‘whatever people have been encultured to think justice is’ ". Nope, this individual is a true believer, someone who thinks there really is a divine principle of what is fair, what is true, whether our puny courts and fallible officers thereof can approximate it or not. That emotional and cognitive embrace of that abstract principle, around which the attorney has arrayed an entire lifetime and made a career, is worship. Now, yes, I know you’re thinking there’s a massive difference between Justice and God. That people who believe in God don’t think of God as an abstract principle, they _pray_ to God and anticipate _answers_ and stuff, they think God is _conscious_! Well, the attorney may spend some time trying to set aside the nuts and bolts of casework and make an effort to get in touch with that sense of justice and what is right, as a method of clarifying and getting in touch with purpose and so on. Tuning into it. That process is prayer. You actually don’t need to fold your hands into a certain shape and address God (or Justice) as if you were composing an email or something and conceptualize the message’s recipient as a blindfolded woman holding a scale (or a bearded sky God or whatever) in order for the process to be useful and meaningful. (You may also think I’ve got a ludicrously idealistic notion of the typical attorney’s relationship to ideals of justice. I don’t, actually. Nor do I have any illusions about the typical religious believer’s relationship to God. Neither of these things mean that there aren’t that kind of idealistic dedicated people who really are true believers, not in the mindless-puppet sense but in the inspired-and-driven sense. And no, you, any of you who state that you do not believe in God, don’t get to tell people that identify as theistic that they don’t believe in God the way you mean when you wish to discuss beliefs in God) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778/40 "2019-05-12T20:58:53Z")
If justice can be considered divine, then it seems as though you are arguing for polytheism. Actually I’m fine with that; there could be an infinite number of gods for all I care. But which of them is worthy of worship? All? None? I don’t think I could give all the infinite gods enough reverence, so I’ll settle for not giving it to any of them. They won’t miss it; they don’t need it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-egotistical-must-an-entity-be-to-need-to-be-worshiped/833778.md?page=3)