# How embarassing! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136 "2006-03-27T19:27:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/41 "2006-03-31T06:32:55Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > It was only after actually meeting the conqueror and learning that the man was honorable and wanted peace did Jet Li’s character abandon the assassination. Yet the story was based on an assassination attempt that was **not** abandoned, but merely failed. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing\_Ke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing_Ke) > [@Push You Down](#): > > From what I understand there’s a bit of a mistranslation in the movie as well… the symbol at the end means “Under Heaven” and not “One Land”. A politically significant difference. Because “Under Heaven” implies Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero\_(movie)#Cross-Cultural\_Translations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_%28movie%29#Cross-Cultural_Translations) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/42 "2006-03-31T06:45:50Z")
Much of Thomas Jefferson’s writing is, in my opinion, great literature (since literature doesn’t have to be non-fiction)… until it comes to race, when the Great Rationalist is clearly becoming the Great Rationalizer. Among his more jaw dropping comments is when he makes an analogy between the “oranj oo tan” [or however he spells it- orangutan is what he was going for) and how it prefers human females to its own (which it, of course, does not, but Jefferson was buying into an 18th century myth) and how the black male prefers white women to his own. You can almost hear the sound of drunk freshmen anti-Jefferson congressmen at a D.C. pub singing “black is love’s proper hue for me and white’s the hue for Sally!” as he’s writing this. As an atheist I was a bit struck by much of the, imo, bigotry against atheists in Flannery O’Connor. I love much of her writing, but she had the definite notion that without Jesus Christ in your life you’re ultimately an amoral barbarian, particularly true in her novel _Wise Blood_. I’ve known several people who knew her and they said she was much worse in person, especially in the last years of her short life, but at the same time was very good friends with both openly atheist and openly gay people (in the 1960s South). Of course she also made James Baldwin use the back door when he visited her house as a matter of propriety. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/43 "2006-03-31T07:07:22Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > For _real_? :eek: All the versions I’ve ever read > > include a real princess somewhere, but that is just… wow. Dude. I am certain that that is what I read. It’s the four volume, amazingly **directly translated** [“The Thousand Nights and One Night”](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415045436/103-0224926-4445459?v=glance&n=283155), which wouldn’t even relax it’s direct translation for the title. Now it is entirely possible that I was dozing as I read through the Aladin story and somehow missed that the bad guy had a female underling or such–but unfortunately my copies of the books are in storage. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/44 "2006-03-31T07:57:15Z")
Agatha Christie’s mystery classic _And Then There Were None_ was originally published with [another title](http://www.rare-books-for-sale.co.uk/books/000066-0.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/45 "2006-03-31T09:18:03Z")
> [@China Guy](#): > > Kim is possibly my all time favorite book & i’ve read it dozens of times. i just don’t see the smoking racist gun. > > his writings often feature racists, and characters definately have racist/colonial attitudes. but writing about racists is definately not the same as being a racist proponent. > > in fact, much of his writing is extremely acerbic and moking of the colonialists and their attitudes & lifestyles. > > IIRC, first story in plain tales from the hills features a hillwoman adopted and raised by english missionaries. she is also featured as the ‘woman of shamliegh’ in kim. read that story and tell me who come > off as racist & morally bankrupt? > > guttenburg project has most if not all of his works if you want to judge for yourself. > > (Kim has the Lama speaking Chinese, which is factually incorrect and I wonder how kipling made such an ergarious mistake? makes me cringe every time.) Kipling originated the phrase “white man’s burden.” Nuff said, no? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/46 "2006-03-31T09:43:44Z")
The White Man’s Burden By Rudyard Kipling McClure’s Magazine 12 (Feb. 1899). Take up the White Man’s burden– Send forth the best ye breed– Go, bind your sons to exile To serve your captives’ need; To wait, in heavy harness, On fluttered folk and wild– Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Take up the White Man’s burden– In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain, To seek another’s profit And work another’s gain. Take up the White Man’s burden– The savage wars of peace– Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Take up the White Man’s burden– No iron rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper– The tale of common things. The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread, Go, make them with your living And mark them with your dead. Take up the White Man’s burden, And reap his old reward– The blame of those ye better The hate of those ye guard– The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:– “Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night?” Take up the White Man’s burden– Ye dare not stoop to less– Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloak your weariness. By all ye will or whisper, By all ye leave or do, The silent sullen peoples Shall weigh your God and you. Take up the White Man’s burden! Have done with childish days– The lightly-proffered laurel, The easy ungrudged praise: Comes now, to search your manhood Through all the thankless years, Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgment of your peers. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/47 "2006-03-31T10:38:59Z")
[Moonfleet](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1853261068/sr=8-2/qid=1143801402/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-6158591-4639349?%5Fencoding=UTF8) is a great adventure yarn with smugglers and treasure and secret passages and some reall appalling anti-semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/48 "2006-03-31T14:03:17Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > _Birth of a Nation_ is a pretty extreme case; a great artist wh holds a reprehensible moral position celebrates it, rather than obscures it, in a great masterpiece. “Embarrassing” is embarrassingly understated for the racist agenda of _Birth of a Nation_; the incidental racism of the many Thirties musicals that contain blackface numbers, for example, is pretty innocuous by comparison. I’d sooner say “horrifying” or “shameful” than embarrassing. > > On that scale, the only thing to compare to it is the work that [Leni Riefenstahl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riefenstahl) did for the Nazis. well said. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/49 "2006-04-01T15:20:49Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > The White Man’s Burden > By Rudyard Kipling > > McClure’s Magazine 12 (Feb. 1899). “The Brown Man’s Burden” by Henry Labouchere, published in the London magazine _Truth,_ republished in _Literary Digest,_ February 1899: Pile on the brown man’s burden To gratify your greed; Go, clear away the “niggers” Who progress would impede; Be very stern, for truly 'Tis useless to be mild With new-caught, sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Pile on the brown man’s burden; And, if ye rouse his hate, Meet his old-fashioned reasons With Maxims up to date. With shells and dumdum bullets A hundred times made plain The brown man’s loss must ever Imply the white man’s gain. Pile on the brown man’s burden, compel him to be free; Let all your manifestoes Reek with philanthropy. And if with heathen folly He dares your will dispute, Then, in the name of freedom, Don’t hesitate to shoot. Pile on the brown man’s burden, And if his cry be sore, That surely need not irk you– Ye’ve driven slaves before. Seize on his ports and pastures, The fields his people tread; Go make from them your living, And mark them with his dead. Pile on the brown man’s burden, Nor do not deem it hard If you should earn the rancor Of those ye yearn to guard. The screaming of your Eagle Will drown the victim’s sob– Go on through fire and slaughter. There’s dollars in the job. Pile on the brown man’s burden, And through the world proclaim That ye are Freedom’s agent– There’s no more paying game! And, should your own past history Straight in your teeth be thrown, Retort that independence Is good for whites alone. Pile on the brown man’s burden, With equity have done; Weak, antiquated scruples Their squeamish course have run, And, though 'tis freedom’s banner You’re waving in the van, Reserve for home consumption The sacred “rights of man”! And if by chance ye falter, Or lag along the course, If, as the blood flows freely, Ye feel some slight remorse, Hie ye to Rudyard Kipling, Imperialism’s prop, And bid him, for your comfort, Turn on his jingo stop. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/50 "2006-04-02T18:14:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “The Brown Man’s Burden” by Henry Labouchere, published in the London magazine _Truth,_ republished in _Literary Digest,_ February 1899: Thanks for that; I wasn’t familiar with it and it is powerful. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/51 "2006-04-02T19:39:24Z")
And “The White Man’s Burden” is positively enlightened and egalitarian compared to another of Kilping’s poems, “The Song of the White Men,” also from 1899: Now, this is the cup the White Men drink When they go to right a wrong, And that is the cup of the old world’s hate – Cruel and strained and strong. We have drunk that cup – and a bitter, bitter cup – And tossed the dregs away. But well for the world when the White Men drink To the dawn of the White Man’s day! Now, this is the road that the White Men tread When they go to clean a land – Iron underfoot and leaven overhead And the deep on either hand. We have trod that road – and a wet and windy road – our chosen star for guide. Oh, well for the world when the White Men tread Their highway side by side. Now, this is the faith that the White Men hold When they build their homes afar – “Freedom for ourselves and freedom for our sons And, failing freedom, War.” We have proved our faith – bear witness to our faith, Dear souls of freemen slain! Oh, well for the world when the White Men join To prove their faith again! I wonder if any neocons were reciting that in March 2003 . . . ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/52 "2006-04-03T01:58:18Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Agatha Christie’s mystery classic _And Then There Were None_ was originally published with [another title](http://www.rare-books-for-sale.co.uk/books/000066-0.jpg). It was also published under [this](http://www.topmystery.com/summary_indians.htm) title as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136/53 "2006-04-03T05:58:13Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > As an atheist I was a bit struck by much of the, imo, bigotry against atheists in Flannery O’Connor. I love much of her writing, but she had the definite notion that without Jesus Christ in your life you’re ultimately an amoral barbarian, particularly true in her novel _Wise Blood_. I remember reading a short story by her, “Good Country People”, where a supposed holy preacher of God is pretty bloody barbaric… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-embarassing/350136.md?page=2)