# How exactly did the NHS devastate the U.K.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 5, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492 "2012-01-05T10:49:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/1 "2012-01-05T10:49:54Z")
The BBC have [Santorum saying](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9671217.stm) that the NHS devastated the U.K. Has he expanded on that anywhere? Simple maths will tell you that the NHS costs about £1500 / $2250 per person per year, which is vastly less than Americans pay. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/2 "2012-01-05T11:48:37Z")
Here are [a couple](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=554202) of [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529752) in which I ask a similar question, and did get at least some replies. They may be constructive, at least as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/3 "2012-01-05T12:00:16Z")
Well in 1946, the UK Parliament passed the NHS Act. In 1947, India became independent. The empire was lost right then. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/4 "2012-01-05T15:23:18Z")
Quite right, too, Gandhi would never have accepted socialized medicine! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/5 "2012-01-05T15:30:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Quite right, too, Gandhi would never have accepted socialized medicine! Don’t worry, well just slip the pills into his . . . food . . . this ain’t gonna work. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/6 "2012-01-05T16:50:16Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The BBC have [Santorum saying](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9671217.stm) that the NHS devastated the U.K. > > Has he expanded on that anywhere? > > Simple maths will tell you that the NHS costs about £1500 / $2250 per person per year, which is vastly less than Americans pay. Think of all the profit that could have otherwise been made… ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/7 "2012-01-08T20:09:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The BBC have [Santorum saying](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9671217.stm) that the NHS devastated the U.K. > > Has he expanded on that anywhere? > > Simple maths will tell you that the NHS costs about £1500 / $2250 per person per year, which is vastly less than Americans pay. Well he is a politician and so apt to spout balls in general. Plus he is ideologically hard-wired to oppose it regardless of the true benefits. I suspect he is not open to rational discussion on this. The NHS is a hugely costly organisation but one that is seen by the UK population as worth it. And as you have pointed out it is cheaper per person than the USA system (which doesn’t cover anywhere near the same proportion of the population, nor with the same “free at the point of use” ethos). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/8 "2012-01-08T20:30:40Z")
To be completely fair (and I’m not even sure I want to be fair to Santorum, but let’s just play along), he was talking about the social programs in the UK in total. He was subsequently asked by a reporter to name one, which was sort of a trick question (remember, folks, we’re being fair here) since Santorum specifically mention programs, and he was talking about the net affect of all of them. It’s easy for someone to be hit on the spot like that and not realize that the answer he should have give was: It’s not just one program, but all of them taken together. Moral of the story: don’t let the reporters frame the question and make you say something stupid because your natural tendency is to defend your position. Also, he said something about Thatcher claiming that the NHS prevented her from getting done what she really wanted to get done. There’s probably some hook there to something she actually said, but it might have been about all the social programs taken together. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/9 "2012-01-08T21:04:51Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Think of all the profit that could have otherwise been made… > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Well he is a politician and so apt to spout balls in general. I love the Dope! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/10 "2012-01-08T21:31:07Z")
Here’s the question I’ve had for years. If public health care systems are so terrible, why have no countries that have public health care systems ever switched back to a private health care system? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/11 "2012-01-08T21:49:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To be completely fair (and I’m not even sure I want to be fair to Santorum, but let’s just play along), he was talking about the social programs in the UK in total. He was subsequently asked by a reporter to name one, which was sort of a trick question (remember, folks, we’re being fair here) since Santorum specifically mention programs, and he was talking about the net affect of all of them. It’s easy for someone to be hit on the spot like that and not realize that the answer he should have give was: It’s not just one program, but all of them taken together. Moral of the story: don’t let the reporters frame the question and make you say something stupid because your natural tendency is to defend your position. Well, Santorum has a hard time proving his point, because he doesn’t have the facts. This is a man who insists there are [no Palestinians](http://politicartoons.livejournal.com/2887086.html#cutid1) and seems to think that states will outlaw birth control in the coming era. I understand living in a fantasy world, but let’s not pretend he’s doing other than that. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/12 "2012-01-08T21:55:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To be completely fair (and I’m not even sure I want to be fair to Santorum, but let’s just play along), he was talking about the social programs in the UK in total. I don’t think I’m feeling like being that fair. The same question _should_ be answerable in an American context: “If government is way too big, which programs will you, as a politician, eliminate?” We all saw what happened when Rick Perry tried to answer that. If Santorum is prepared to answer Perry’s “gotcha ya” question with real policy statements rather than handwaving about general government expenses, then I would indeed cut him a little slack for not being able to do the same with the UK at a moment’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/13 "2012-01-09T00:29:13Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I don’t think I’m feeling like being that fair. The same question _should_ be answerable in an American context: > > “If government is way too big, which programs will you, as a politician, eliminate?” > > We all saw what happened when Rick Perry tried to answer that. > > If Santorum is prepared to answer Perry’s “gotcha ya” question with real policy statements rather than handwaving about general government expenses, then I would indeed cut him a little slack for not being able to do the same with the UK at a moment’s notice. I just watched two debates in as many days, and Santorum is no idiot, like Perry. He’ll be able to rattle off any number of programs he thinks should be eliminated or cut back significantly. Politicians always think the country is going to ruin if we don’t follow their path. The Republicans, though, like their Europe-bashing, and this was just another example. It plays well with a large segment of the public. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/14 "2012-01-09T00:52:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s the question I’ve had for years. If public health care systems are so terrible, why have no countries that have public health care systems ever switched back to a private health care system? It’s my understanding that the Netherlands has moved from a system of publicly provided insurance to a system of private insurers and an individual mandate to provide universal coverage. I don’t really know much about the details. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/15 "2012-01-09T01:50:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Politicians always think the country is going to ruin if we don’t follow their path. No, they **say** that. It’s a commonplace in politics to overstate one’s case. How else to fire-up the base? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/16 "2012-01-09T05:56:21Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > It’s my understanding that the Netherlands has moved from a system of publicly provided insurance to a system of private insurers and an individual mandate to provide universal coverage. I don’t really know much about the details. Wikipedia has a pretty good synopsis. It seems like they moved more towards an Obamacare-like model from a previous model that was less “liberal” (for lack of a better term) rather than becoming more “conservative”. > [@](#): > > Healthcare in the Netherlands is financed by a dual system that came into effect in January 2006. Long-term treatments, especially those that involve semi-permanent hospitalization, and also disability costs such as wheelchairs, are covered by a state-controlled mandatory insurance. … > For all regular (short-term) medical treatment, there is a system of obligatory health insurance, with private health insurance companies. These insurance companies are obliged to provide a package with a defined set of insured treatments… > A key feature of the Dutch system is that premiums may not be related to health status or age. Risk variances between private health insurance companies due to the different risks presented by individual policy holders are compensated through risk equalization and a common risk pool. Funding for all short-term health care is 50% from employers, 45% from the insured person and 5% by the government. Children under 18 are covered for free. Those on low incomes receive compensation to help them pay their insurance… > From 1941 to 2006, there were separate public and private systems of short-term health insurance. …Everyone earning less than a certain threshold qualified for the public insurance system. However, anyone with income over that threshold was obliged to have private insurance instead ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/17 "2012-01-09T07:12:41Z")
People like Santorum also believe in creationism and think climate change is a myth. They believe things that aren’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-exactly-did-the-nhs-devastate-the-u-k/608492/18 "2012-01-09T07:13:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s the question I’ve had for years. If public health care systems are so terrible, why have no countries that have public health care systems ever switched back to a private health care system? I’m not sure how true it is, but I’ve heard several wealthy countries use the US and our health care system as a fear tactic. “If you elect politician XYZ, he will destroy our health care system and create a system similar to what the Americans have”. Not that I blame them. Wendell Potter was a HR rep in charge of bashing Michael Moore after SiCKO came out, but changed his mind when he saw a non-for profit ad hoc health care fair being set up in Virginia where people were (I think) getting teeth pulled in animal stables, etc. He said it reminded him of a 3rd world country. FWIW, people in the US don’t want to destroy our public health care systems either. The Tea party roared to power in part because they were protesting cuts to medicare.