# How facts backfire. Is fighting ignorance just a lost cause? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208 "2010-09-01T00:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/101 "2010-09-11T21:16:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can educate the ignorant. Enlightening the stupid is a lot harder. Simply and accurately put. People have to value the facts more than their preconcieved ideas. My practice is to give people a couple of shots at reasoned civil discussion. Passion is great, but if they simply don’t apply the facts that are contrary to thier view. I’m done. I think for some people who will engage in a decent reasonable discussion, time can be a factor. Personally , my views changing on a particular issue is usually a process where I factor in the facts I’ve gathered in discussions. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/102 "2010-09-11T21:22:15Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Well, I’m a firm believer in education to change the minds of ignorant people and I’m not at all convinced that this study isn’t seriously flawed. It really doesn’t affect anything. > > lalalalalalalalalala, I can’t hear you! I just got a mental image of SNL or Daily Show doing this as a debate about this very subject. Lots of potential. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/103 "2010-09-11T23:18:46Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > > Therefore I’ve come to the conclusion that Rush Limbaugh is largely correct when he says that Republicans must not give an inch to the left in this country and that liberals and Democrats must be opposed and defeated **at all costs** > > Could you elaborate a bit as to what costs you think would be acceptable? Why a functioning democracy obviously. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/104 "2010-09-11T23:25:58Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > > [@Otara](#): > > > > Exactly how do you propose to convince the other 75% of the population to agree with implementing this? And thats assuming all of the top 25% is entirely bereft of morals as well. > > The bottom 75% don’t need to be “convinced” of anything - just go ahead and make the change via constitutional amendment. The people will go along with it. After all, how do you currently convince under-18s and felons that they cannot vote? You don’t; you simply don’t give them the opportunity to do so. Those are arbitrary rules; I’m simply offering another, much better arbitrary rule. If you think 75% of the people would accept having their right to vote taken away , even with a constitutional amendment, you are delusional. And, if you are assuming you’d be in that top 25% then even offering the proposal, demonstrates your proposal is no solution. IQ is not enough. Character is also required. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/105 "2010-09-11T23:31:44Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > ‘Fighting Ignorance’ is easy, you’ve just been using the wrong tools. > > Facts don’t work and never have. People care nothing for ‘facts’. If you are serious about fighting ignorance you need something more potent, like a fire-axe or an M16. I propose a similar strategy with the war on pvoverty. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/106 "2010-09-11T23:45:54Z")
> [@El\_Zagna](#): > > We’re never going to see IQ tests or any other kind of test as a requirement for voting, but one thing we perhaps can do is to put to rest the idea that uninformed voting is a virtue. Right now there is a certain shame associated with not voting. Some people just aren’t interested in politics, and there shouldn’t be anything wrong with that. If you’re not the kind of person who likes to keep up to date with things, fine, don’t vote. Voting stupid is far worse than not voting at all. And good people have busy lives and just don’t have the time to be informed. I’d like to see us encourage voters to spend some small percentage of their time getting informed on a regular basis. Monthly or semi monthly meetings with their local reps tp discuss the issues. We also need to stress rational communications among citizens. Keep on driving home that we are fellow citizens rather than the enemy destroying America. Place a premium on honesty, and the facts, while still trying to respect the right to interpret those facts. Then, try to be very very patient. I don’t see any positive results for public insults, calling people stupid, or liars, or morons, or any of that. Resist the temptation even when you are frustrated. It’s like the Gandhi approach to debate. Non viloent language Hmmmmm? MAybe there’s a book in that. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208/107 "2010-09-12T00:12:16Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > What scares me is the right’s war on the educated. They bring forward people like Bush II and Sarah Palin, and ridicule Obama and Clinton for their advanced education. Even Newt Gingritch called intellectuals “public enemy number one” when Clinton was in office. > > And how many times have you heard Limbaugh and now Beck call Universities “indoctrination centers”? I saw Hannity interview some guy the other night who has this and that degree and works for some think tank. He supposedly had done a study which demonstrated that liberal intellectuals think they are so superior that they simply dismiss conservative thought without giving it any consideration. It’s proof I tell ya. ftr, I think there is a element of truth. Intellectuals can sometimes value their opions a little too highly, but there are conservative intellectuals. Any idea that the common man really knows best is a bs emotional appeal. We need people who are experts in thier fields, arrogant or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-facts-backfire-is-fighting-ignorance-just-a-lost-cause/552208.md?page=5)