# How familiar are non-US citizens with the 50 states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967 "2010-08-03T03:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/41 "2010-08-03T13:25:15Z")
We had a French friend of a friend stay with us once (in South Carolina). She was pretty much aware of New York, Florida, Texas, and California. She was planning on taking a day trip to Florida and then one to California. She was quite well educated, so I’ve assumed ever since that French people don’t have a lot of knowledge of US geography. (She also expected plantations and such.) ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/42 "2010-08-03T13:26:29Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > > [@Markxxx](#): > > > > Markxxx > > 123 Fake Street > > Elk Grove Village, Il > > Chicago 60018 > > Well, this foreigner doesn’t get what’s wrong with this, so you’re going to have to explain. The only thing that looks odd is the ‘Il’ before the city name (presuming Il stands for Illinois?) Elk Grove Village is the city. Chicago doesn’t have any business in there at all. (IL is indeed Illinois.) ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/43 "2010-08-03T13:32:15Z")
I’ve known plenty of **Americans** who probably couldn’t place any given state on a blank map. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/44 "2010-08-03T13:33:24Z")
> [@wheresmymind](#): > > if I told an average 20- or 30-something in your country I was from state X, how much would that mean to them? Jackshit. I’d be surprised if the average South African 20-something knew New York was a state as well as a city. I’d be surprised if they could find their own province, quite frankly. Generally, they’d know of the \*existence \*of New York, L.A. and maybe Vegas, Miami, Chicago, San Francisco and Boston (you know, where TV shows are set), that’s it. They wouldn’t be able to tell Maine from Kentucky, or Utah from Nevada, never mind the niceties of Midwest geography or where the heck this “Dakotas” state is. > [@](#): > > I suspect most would be able to point out New York, California, Texas and Florida on a map, I have my doubts > [@](#): > > (HI and AK are gimmes) Don’t be so sure… > [@](#): > > , but what about Michigan? Naah. > [@](#): > > Would they be able to recognize Alabama as being part of the South? Possibly, because of the civil rights associations - but they wouldn’t be able to point it out on a map. > [@](#): > > Would they be cognizant of all the derisive things we say about New Jersey (deserved or not)? The average South African? Naah. I, personally, would do a lot better on a pop quiz about the US (a hell of a lot better than most even educated Americans would on a similar test about South Africa, I guarantee), but I am waaaay more educated than the average South African, plus I’ve had a NG subscription since I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/45 "2010-08-03T13:35:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I couldn’t name any counties in Britain (aside from guessing that there are probably several with the same names as major cities), but I could name several counties in Ireland, and even place a few on the map. As a part Irish Englishman I could name nearly all the English counties — they have the modern habit of changing them around every now and again — and those of Ulster; half of the Scottish and Welsh, but only a couple of Irish ones \> sadly some countries, particularly little ones, are _nice but boring_ and if nothing of historical importance has happened in a region or place one tends to blank it from one’s mind… I could, if pushed, name most of the United States, but I wouldn’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/46 "2010-08-03T13:52:57Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > Well, this foreigner doesn’t get what’s wrong with this, so you’re going to have to explain. The only thing that looks odd is the ‘Il’ before the city name (presuming Il stands for Illinois?) > > Elk Grove Village is the city. Chicago doesn’t have any business in there at all. (IL is indeed Illinois.) OK, Elk Grove Village is a separate entity from the city of Chicago. But do US addresses never include districts within a city? Like 123 Fake Street Lakeview Chicago, IL 60018 ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/47 "2010-08-03T13:53:53Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I would certainly hope that on hearing, say, “I’m from South Australia” most people could hazard an educated guess as to the country 😉 That would make me think you were, perhaps, from Adelaide. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/48 "2010-08-03T13:58:48Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > Well, this foreigner doesn’t get what’s wrong with this, so you’re going to have to explain. The only thing that looks odd is the ‘Il’ before the city name (presuming Il stands for Illinois?) > > Elk Grove Village is the city. Chicago doesn’t have any business in there at all. (IL is indeed Illinois.) Got it. I wonder if that’s because Markxxx answers ‘Chicago’ when people ask where he’s from - that may explain the confusion on the part of his Ozzy friends. And let’s face it, Elk Grove Village sounds like a, um, village, not a city. Many villages in the UK - and therefore I suspect Australia - are villages that have become submerged within an expanding city, and turned into a suburb of that city rather than a distinct entity. Most of London is like this. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/49 "2010-08-03T13:58:54Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > > [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > > > But can you name the pre-Confederation premiers of the province of Canada? Even one of them? > > To hell with “the province of Canada.” Can you name one of the premiers of pre-Confederation Nova Scotia/ New Brunswick? That’s actually pretty easy, if you’re just asking for one of each: [John A. Macdonald](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald#Political_rise.2C_1843.E2.80.931864) and [George-Étienne Cartier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George-%C3%89tienne_Cartier#Early_career) (co-Premiers), [Charles Tupper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tupper#Premier_of_Nova_Scotia.2C_1864-1867), and [Leonard Tilley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Leonard_Tilley#Political_career). It’s if you’re asking for more than one that it gets murky, but some that come to mind without googling are Taché, Baldwin & Lafontaine, Draper and Howe. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/50 "2010-08-03T14:10:19Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > OK, Elk Grove Village is a separate entity from the city of Chicago. But do US addresses never include districts within a city? Like > > 123 Fake Street > Lakeview > Chicago, IL > 60018 Nope. Name Street Address City, State ZIP The ZIP code (the string of numbers), tells the post office all they need to know about where within the city the address is located. Most cities have multiple ZIP codes – in fact, sometimes entities that generate a great deal of mail, like a university, have their own ZIP code. There are some places with anachronistic choice of what you put in the “City” spot in the address, (where I live, in the borough of Queens in New York City, is one of them) BUT you would never designate more than one place at the municipality level in a US mailing address. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/51 "2010-08-03T14:15:22Z")
I know some otherwise well educated fellow brits who took a great deal of persuading that there were not, in fact, 51 US states. I have absolutely no idea where that idea would have come from. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/52 "2010-08-03T14:18:26Z")
I’m fairly good at it, but I love maps and I teach geography. Many know the names of the “big” places la NY, LA, Texas. Others like Florida a common vacation/illegal immigration places. Some, like Las Vegas are famous for movies. But as to actually pointing them on a map, most wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/53 "2010-08-03T14:19:12Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > OK, Elk Grove Village is a separate entity from the city of Chicago. But do US addresses never include districts within a city? Like > > 123 Fake Street > Lakeview > Chicago, IL > 60018 Not by name anymore. That was done here and there in the U.S. at one time. Zone Improvement Plan codes (invariably called “ZIP codes”) took the place of intramunicipal district names. ZIP codes _are_, in fact, distinct districts – and are often districts within a city. they’re just numbered instead of named. That would mean that in the sample address you gave, “Lakeview” and “60018” are redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/54 "2010-08-03T14:19:33Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > I know some otherwise well educated fellow brits who took a great deal of persuading that there were not, in fact, 51 US states. I have absolutely no idea where that idea would have come from. My guess is they thought of Washington DC. Or maybe of themselves, because the UK IS the 51st state, ain’t it? 😛 Thais pretty much know Texas, California, New York, Florida and Hawaii. And Chicago, but they don’t realize it’s in Illinois. Alaska too, I guess … maybe. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/55 "2010-08-03T14:27:49Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > I know some otherwise well educated fellow brits who took a great deal of persuading that there were not, in fact, 51 US states. I have absolutely no idea where that idea would have come from. Possibly because of DC. In particular, it gets lumped in with the states during reporting of presidential elections because it has electoral votes. We had a thread not too long ago discussing the odd status of DC, and federal districts in general. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/56 "2010-08-03T14:28:12Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@Ximenean](#): > > > > OK, Elk Grove Village is a separate entity from the city of Chicago. But do US addresses never include districts within a city? Like > > > > 123 Fake Street > > Lakeview > > Chicago, IL > > 60018 > > Not by name anymore. That was done here and there in the U.S. at one time. Zone Improvement Plan codes (invariably called “ZIP codes”) took the place of intramunicipal district names. ZIP codes _are_, in fact, distinct districts – and are often districts within a city. they’re just numbered instead of named. > > That would mean that in the sample address you gave, “Lakeview” and “60018” are redundant. I remember a thread once in which one Doper (can’t remember the name, the guy who’s some kind of manager in the Australian postal service), said that the idea of primarily using postal codes to sort mail was actually a little old-fashioned, and that redundancy in addresses was a good thing. The more information the automated sorting systems have to go on, the better. Postal codes are still useful as they are nice and unambiguous, but modern systems can cope well enough if they are absent, as long as there is sufficient information to identify the address. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/57 "2010-08-03T14:29:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@orcenio](#): > > > > To hell with “the province of Canada.” Can you name one of the premiers of pre-Confederation Nova Scotia/ New Brunswick? > > That’s actually pretty easy, if you’re just asking for one of each: [John A. Macdonald](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald#Political_rise.2C_1843.E2.80.931864) and [George-Étienne Cartier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George-%C3%89tienne_Cartier#Early_career) (co-Premiers), [Charles Tupper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tupper#Premier_of_Nova_Scotia.2C_1864-1867), and [Leonard Tilley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Leonard_Tilley#Political_career). > > It’s if you’re asking for more than one that it gets murky, but some that come to mind without googling are Taché, Baldwin & Lafontaine, Draper and Howe. You, certainly, would beat me in trivial pursuit. You have the fathers of confederation committed to memory? ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/58 "2010-08-03T14:53:31Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > > [@ticker](#): > > > > I know some otherwise well educated fellow brits who took a great deal of persuading that there were not, in fact, 51 US states. I have absolutely no idea where that idea would have come from. > > Possibly because of DC. In particular, it gets lumped in with the states during reporting of presidential elections because it has electoral votes. We had a thread not too long ago discussing the odd status of DC, and federal districts in general. I doubt that is the explanation - it would require more knowledge than they obviously have to make that sort of error. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/59 "2010-08-03T15:06:55Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > There are some places with anachronistic choice of what you put in the “City” spot in the address, (where I live, in the borough of Queens in New York City, is one of them) BUT you would never designate more than one place at the municipality level in a US mailing address. This is often due to historical reasons. Brooklyn and the many towns and villages of Queens were all independent municipalities until they were abolished to make way for the consolidation of New York City. But people never stopped writing “Brooklyn” or “Astoria” or “Flusing” on their envelopes. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/60 "2010-08-03T15:12:31Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > > [@yabob](#): > > > > Possibly because of DC. In particular, it gets lumped in with the states during reporting of presidential elections because it has electoral votes. We had a thread not too long ago discussing the odd status of DC, and federal districts in general. > > I doubt that is the explanation - it would require more knowledge than they obviously have to make that sort of error. Still seems more plausible than other explanations. Another point - they keep hearing “Washington, DC” on the news. Familiar with the usual US “\, \” construction, this might lead someone to think of “DC” as a state. Given that they don’t conflate Washington, DC with the state of Washington. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967.md?page=4)