# How familiar are non-US citizens with the 50 states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967 "2010-08-03T03:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/101 "2010-08-04T02:17:47Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > > [@yabob](#): > > > > Possibly because of DC. In particular, it gets lumped in with the states during reporting of presidential elections because it has electoral votes. We had a thread not too long ago discussing the odd status of DC, and federal districts in general. > > I doubt that is the explanation - it would require more knowledge than they obviously have to make that sort of error. It’s an error I’ve seen several times in Spain, from people who have noticed the “Washington DC” in a show and don’t know either what does the DC stand for or that it’s not a state. We used to have a pyramidal structure: 50 provinces, grouped into regions, and above everything the country. People’s minds deal with that easily, but with having a piece which isn’t quite the same as everything else, not so much. We sort of copied the DC/DF structure for Madrid: the city is part of the Province of the same name, but not of the Autonomous Region (which comprises the province minus the city); every time this leads to conflicts between the Major of Madrid and the President of Madrid, it gets explained on the news again and people are left equally dumbfounded, specially those old enough to learn geography before “the Madrid doughnut” got put in place. The two Autonomous Cities of Ceuta and Melilla are part of two Andalusian provinces, but not part of the Autonomous Region of Andalusia - some day I’m feeling nasty I may trot that out in conversation and see how many people go into shock from trying to process it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/102 "2010-08-04T02:58:55Z")
Going on the truly average Brit? They could name maybe fifteen, place maybe four on a map (Florida, New York - or get close to it - Texas, Alaska. Hawaii too if you made sure they knew those far-away islands were also part of the US). The rest would all ring a bell when named, however, and they would probably be right moore often than not when asked if the state was north-east, north-west, etc. It doesn’t matter to most people, and people generally remember best what matters to them. It probably matters more nowadays, when people have more international friends. HI and AK wouldn’t be givens if you phrased them as HI and AK because most people wouldn’t know the abbreviations. I did that quiz and failed because I forgot West Virginia is its own state. I mean, I know it’s a mountain momma, but that doesn’t imply statehood. 😃 That’s more difficult because there isn’t a contrasting East Virginia, like with North and South Dakota/Carolina. I kept having to stop my brain saying ‘Omaha’ for the above given reason that it just sounds like a state - it begins with a vowel and ends in A, it must be a state! I am also an idiot who used to think that New England was a state. When it sounds like a state and people on the telly refer to New England, you end up thinking it’s a state. I’m still an idiot because I continued thinking it after certain knowledge should have made me realise otherwise; I think it might’ve been the SD that corrected me, or at least confirmed the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/103 "2010-08-04T03:14:52Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > 36/50… and I managed to forget Wisconsin, which I’ve visited twice. ☹ > > New Jersey is a state?! 🙂 I don’t get the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/104 "2010-08-04T03:55:08Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Most Canadians are probably more-or-less familiar with all 50 states, and most have probably tried to name them all at random drunken parties at some point in their lives! I’ll bet $100 I can say all 50 states in two seconds. Ready? Money out? All 50 states. Sucker! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/105 "2010-08-04T04:32:01Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > > > My guess is they thought of Washington DC. Or maybe of themselves, because the UK IS the 51st state, ain’t it? 😛 > > No no, you’re thinking of Canada. Nah, it’s not even a real country anyway. Don’t you watch _South Park_? > [@Musicat](#): > > > [@mnemosyne](#): > > > > Most Canadians are probably more-or-less familiar with all 50 states, and most have probably tried to name them all at random drunken parties at some point in their lives! > > I’ll bet $100 I can say all 50 states in two seconds. > > Ready? Money out? > > All 50 states. Sucker! I win. Pay me. Because: You did not say “all 50 states in two seconds.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/106 "2010-08-04T05:43:03Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > > [@Apollyon](#): > > > > 36/50… and I managed to forget Wisconsin, which I’ve visited twice. ☹ > > > > New Jersey is a state?! 🙂 > > I don’t get the joke. I know people who, based on documentaries such as Saturday Night Fever or Coyote Club, thought it was some sort of suburb of NYC. “No, it touches NYC but it’s the state next door, not the town next door. Moving from there to Manhattan is like moving from Guadalajara to Madrid, not like moving from Alcalá to Madrid.” “Aaaaah! Well, I didn’t know that, thank you!” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/107 "2010-08-04T08:21:54Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > That’s actually pretty easy, if you’re just asking for one of each: [John A. Macdonald](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald#Political_rise.2C_1843.E2.80.931864) and [George-Étienne Cartier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George-%C3%89tienne_Cartier#Early_career) (co-Premiers), [Charles Tupper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tupper#Premier_of_Nova_Scotia.2C_1864-1867), and [Leonard Tilley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Leonard_Tilley#Political_career). > > > > It’s if you’re asking for more than one that it gets murky, but some that come to mind without googling are Taché, Baldwin & Lafontaine, Draper and Howe. > > You, certainly, would beat me in trivial pursuit. You have the fathers of confederation committed to memory? Nope, that would be extreme. 🙂 The four I mentioned were four of the most prominent, one from each of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Canada East and Canada West. Off-hand, though, I can name a few more without googling them: [George Brown](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Brown_(Canadian_politician)) from Canada West (who was very briefly co-Premier of the Province of Canada), [Alexander Galt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Tilloch_Galt) from Canada East, [Edward Whelan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Whelan), and the two Fathers of Confederation who had exactly the same name and military rank: [Colonel John Hamilton Gray of Prince Edward Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hamilton_Gray_(Prince_Edward_Island_politician)) (who was Premier of P.E.I.), and [Colonel John Hamilton Gray of New Brunswick](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hamilton_Gray_(New_Brunswick_politician)). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/108 "2010-08-04T16:52:52Z")
Only half of New Jersey is a suburb of New York. The other half is a suburb of Philadelphia. (and yes, I know that that’s not literally true, but it sure seems like it, some times.) And the confusion about New England certainly isn’t helped by the fact that they have a football team (the New England Patriots). Usually, the geographical identifier for a major sports team is a city, or at most a state (like the Tennessee Titans). New England is also a bit odd in that it’s so rigidly-defined: One might argue about, say, whether Maryland counts as part of the South, or whether Ohio is part of the Midwest, but New England is always Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine, nothing more nor less. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/109 "2010-08-05T09:14:37Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > I heard a similar error made over the Carolinas a few months ago, in a British podcast that I subscribe to. (It’s the _News Quiz_, hosted by Sandi Toksvig, if anyone’s curious.) The comedian-panelist kept referring to a study from the “University of Carolina”, and in general implied that he thought there’s just a single state with that name. None of the other panelists, or the host, corrected him on it, but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. The Carolinas can be confused in the arena of academics, because while the states are North Carolina and South Carolina, in North Carolina, you’ll find [East Carolina University](http://www.ecu.edu/) and [West Carolina University](http://www.wcu.edu/). There is no such thing as “North Carolina University.” (There is “The University of North Carolina” though.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/110 "2010-08-06T15:01:24Z")
I have noticed that some of my Indian relatives and acquaintances seem to believe that giving the name of a state is sufficient information to pinpoint one’s location for a meeting. Once someone asked to be telephoned at the “Marriott (or whatever) in Nebraska.” I guessed right that it was in Omaha but I wondered how they would have reacted to being given “Madhya Pradesh” as a location for a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/111 "2010-08-06T17:09:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In a recent thread there was a mention of a Welsh author who mistakenly had an American character being from Dakota. The author was apparently unaware that North Dakota and South Dakota are two seperate states and not just two halves of the same state. He didn’t have an editor? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/112 "2010-08-22T14:32:35Z")
I’m ashamed to confess I’ve lived 20 years in this house without exactly being able to explain where it is in NY state. Suburb of city of S\_\_\_. Town of Cl\_\_, not to be confused with Town of Ci\_\_\_ which adjoins it. Mailing address: village of L\_\_\_\_ (which has two separate zip codes). School district: N. S\_\_\_ (another city altogether). Across the main road: their school district is B\_\_\_\_(another city altogether, 10 miles away.) My daughter used to say, so where DO we live?, and I’d say, tell people Town of Cl\_\_\_ near the North Area YMCA. Everyone knows where that is. “So where are you from?” "S\_\_\_\_, Upstate NY (not anywhere near NY City. Unfortunately). I guess they picture city of S\_\_\_ as a lone outpost in the vast murky wasteland above NYC, and they’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/113 "2010-08-22T17:30:39Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > I know some otherwise well educated fellow brits who took a great deal of persuading that there were not, in fact, 51 US states. I have absolutely no idea where that idea would have come from. I had an Irish person once argue furiously with me when I told him there weren’t 52 states. I’m not sure what he thought the extra two were. As to the OP, I’m from Maryland. Nobody in Ireland knows where that is unless they’re one of the rare Irish people who’ve been there. (Blank stare. “It’s right next to Washington DC.” Another blank stare. “Four hours south of New York.” “_Oh_.”) They can’t pronounce it either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/114 "2010-08-22T17:58:15Z")
I’ve heard of the 52 states things from Americans, too. The line of thought seems to be something like “50 states… But wait, there’s also Alaska and Hawaii”. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/115 "2010-08-22T18:12:18Z")
I think I may have made the “52 states” mistake myself before. In my case it’s because I recalled that 52 was a significant number in some way (weeks in a year, cards in a deck) but associated it with the wrong thing. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/116 "2010-08-22T19:26:09Z")
Knowing the States is not related to nationality. I have met many USAians with only a vague concept of their own state, let alone nearby states. That’s where geography stopped. Their concept of foreign places was almost zero - when I met them in a foreign country, they had little idea of where they were. That lack of knowledge can be found in every country. It is largely related to your education, whether you read much and whether your TV diet is soaps or documentaries. That applies whether you are USAian or from another country. In the test page quoted above, I scored 47/50 in 10 minutes. Given longer, I would name them all. I can name most countries of the world on a blank map. I think I’d pass the “name the Stans” test. I hope I’d get many of the Pacific island nations, but I’m not totally confident. I’d know they were in the Pacific, but I might mis-place them. In the past, it was a standard kid’s game in Ireland to try to name the 50 States. With a bit of time and brain-storming, we always managed it. However, someone always suggested Omaha. It just looks lilke it should be the name of a state - Idaho, Oklahoma, Iowa, Ohio, Omaha. Would anyone really mind if you renamed Nebraska? The 51st State is a common term of abuse in many countries - that a country has become the 51st State of America. Its government is deemed to be controlled by the USA government. You may deduce that the person speaking knows there are 50 States. Many people believe that Puerto Rico is now a State, and are surprised to find it is still just a kind of USAian colony. That may account for the belief that there are now 51. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/117 "2010-08-22T19:33:04Z")
Looking over my shoulder, and reading my last post, my wife said, “I thought there were 52 States of America.” And she has travelled the world, and knows her geography. Perhaps we should take a poll on this, and decide the correct number by a majority. (Welcome to the States of Puerto Rico and South Texas.) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/118 "2010-08-23T11:44:15Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > I’m from Maryland. Nobody in Ireland knows where that is unless they’re one of the rare Irish people who’ve been there. (Blank stare. “It’s right next to Washington DC.” Another blank stare. “Four hours south of New York.” “_Oh_.”) They can’t pronounce it either. My, how ironic. In the 18th century Maryland was sure to be one colony known to the Irish. They emigrated to Baltimore in considerable numbers—because Maryland was the only Catholic-friendly colony. I’m descended from some of those immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/119 "2010-08-23T12:27:04Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > For anyone who would like to test their prowess at naming the states based upon their location, you can do that here: [US States Map Quiz](http://www.sporcle.com/games/states.php) All 50, in 3 minutes. 20 seconds of which were spent on figuring out **exactly** how “Massachusetts” is spelled… Then again, I can probably **draw** a serviceable map of the US, with all the states, if I need to. And I mean, starting with a blank sheet of paper on which I have to start by drawing the outline of N. America. Then again, I’m probably capable of nearly the same feat for Europe, and only slightly less so for the other continents. Yeah, I’m a map bug… 🙂 > [@Kyla](#): > > My host sister in Bulgaria was surprised when I pointed out where Hawaii is to her daughter (who was eight and looking at a child’s atlas). She had been sure it was in the Gulf of Mexico. Now that’s just silly. Everybody knows that Hawaii and Alaska are both in the Pacific, just off the coast of California! Oh, and that Maine is a peninsula… 😛 :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/120 "2010-08-23T12:37:56Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > I’d be willing to bet that more Brits know more about U.S. geography than vice-versa. > > Ditto, but take out “Brits” and put in “Canadians”. > > Also, when I was a kid, I could easily name the US Presidents in order, but I doubt most Americans could do the same with our Prime Ministers. I doubt most Americans could name any of your Prime Ministers, past or present, in any order. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967.md?page=7)