# How familiar are non-US citizens with the 50 states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967 "2010-08-03T03:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/141 "2010-08-24T17:30:19Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Other countries may use a different system, sometimes vastly different (e.g. Japan). Yeah, my address in Japan was: [Room Number] [Dorm Name] [Street Address], [Ward] [City], [Prefecture] [Mail Code] > [@Ximenean](#): > > But the point is, mail will get to its destination if you use any format that can be reasonably understood. I could put “London” in my address, without a post code, and mail would still get here as long as the address was specific enough. [snip] It sounds like the US Postal service is a little more strict, and the address HAS to be \ \ \ \ ? No, they’ll do their best to get it to you no matter what information you include, and (City, State) and (ZIP Code) are pretty mutually reduntant. But the more info you have, the more likely it is to get where it’s intended to go in a reasonable amount of time. Especially if you include the ZIP, you can fudge the city quite a bit. It’s not uncommon for two different people to right one address two different ways: one using the name of the suburb, and one using the name of the city the suburb is closest to. This is especially true when the “suburb” is really more of a neighborhood that’s still officialy part of the city in question. > [@Apollyon](#): > > 36/50… and I managed to forget Wisconsin, which I’ve visited twice. You make me sad. Or maybe I’m more depressed about whatever it was you saw here that failed to make an impression on you. 😃 Next time, let me know when you’re coming, and I’ll tell you what you should go see. > [@Nava](#): > > We used to have a pyramidal structure: 50 provinces, grouped into regions, and above everything the country. People’s minds deal with that easily, but with having a piece which isn’t quite the same as everything else, not so much. A lot of people in the U.S. don’t even know exactly how D.C. works. One of the interesting things IMO about the fact that it’s not part of any state means that they don’t have any Senators or Representatives. Residents can even get a license plate that says “Taxation Without Representation.” > [@Nava](#): > > I know people who, based on documentaries such as Saturday Night Fever or Coyote Club, thought [New Jersey] was some sort of suburb of NYC. I used to think that “Newark” was just an odd way of saying “New York.” :smack: I might have figured out the difference as late as the early 2000s, when I was flying into the Newark airport on a visit to NYC. > [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > That lack of knowledge can be found in every country. It is largely related to your education, whether you read much and whether your TV diet is soaps or documentaries. That applies whether you are USAian or from another country. And I’d call that an attitude that’s pretty prejudiced toward your own interests. I, personally, happen to be fairly crap at geography, but I’m far from a pop culture slob. > [@fiddlesticks](#): > > I remember in high school German class our teacher said that in her travels in Germany and Austria she said “most people” weren’t aware of the existence of Wisconsin…but everyone knew Chicago (before the 80s: “Al Capone!”, after: “Michael Jordan!”), so she usually used that to describe where she was from (a few hours north of Chicago). Apparently Milwaukee wasn’t much more well known than Wisconsin itself. Yeah, when I say I’m from Milwaukee, WI, I usually specify that it’s a city about an hour and a half/80 miles north of Chicago, because that’s a landmark that people tend to know. I might also say that we make beer and motorcycles. 😃 If I want to be more specific, I’ll usually use the back of my left hand as a reference for the shape of the state and point to where Milwaukee is, more or less. The one thing I find that people who haven’t visited the U.S., or have visited it very briefly, tend not to comprehend is the sheer \*size \*of the place. Even individual states–and not the ones you’d expect like Texas or Alaska–can be comparable in size to entire countries. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see this [ignorance of the Great Lakes] as too surprising. I live very near one of the lakes but I’ve never thought of them as global geographical features. Just look across the border - how many Americans do you think could point to Lake Athabasca, Lake Manitoba, Lake Winnipeg, Lake Winnepegosis, Great Bear Lake, and Great Slave Lake on a map? I don’t believe any of those are remotely comparable to the Great Lakes (especially not when the Great Lakes are considered collectively), either in size or in influence. I’d say it would be more like someone not knowing about the Mediterranean Sea. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/142 "2010-08-24T18:57:43Z")
All these foreigners who only know New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago… I wonder if they actually know those places, either? Someone might nod their head knowingly when you say that Milwaukee is an hour and a half north of Chicago, but do they know that Chicago is towards the northern side of the country, and about in the middle? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/143 "2010-08-24T19:39:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All these foreigners who only know New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago… I wonder if they actually know those places, either? Someone might nod their head knowingly when you say that Milwaukee is an hour and a half north of Chicago, but do they know that Chicago is towards the northern side of the country, and about in the middle? Yep. And on the West shore of Lake Michigan (so the Eastern part of the city is on the lake.) And it’s in Illinois. And LA isn’t really **quite** on the Pacific, but rather a lot of it is in a slightly more inland depression (which helps to cause all the smog)… And NYC is mostly on islands (4 of the boroughs, all except for the Bronx)… and more… Although I’ve never been to Chicago nor to LA. I have to say that I’m probably not really representative, though – having mis-read the title of the thread as “non-US **residents** ” for some reason. As a long-term (does 46 years make it long term yet…?) ex-pat, I don’t technically qualify as a “non-US citizen,” and since I have some family States’-side and have been in the US relatively extensively (a total of nearly 4 years of my life) I probably know more about them than the average non-US Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/144 "2010-08-24T19:44:30Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > And LA isn’t really **quite** on the Pacific, but rather a lot of it is in a slightly more inland depression (which helps to cause all the smog)… That’s kind of like saying that Iceland isn’t really quite in the Atlantic, because you won’t get your ankles wet in most parts of it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/145 "2010-08-24T19:58:29Z")
**Noone Special** , a foreigner you may be, but I’ll bet you’re not one of the foreigners who _only_ knows New York, LA, and Chicago. I mean, one of the ones who’d be clueless about Milwaukee, until told that it’s near Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/146 "2010-08-24T20:26:11Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > > [@Noone\_Special](#): > > > > And LA isn’t really **quite** on the Pacific, but rather a lot of it is in a slightly more inland depression (which helps to cause all the smog)… > > That’s kind of like saying that Iceland isn’t really quite in the Atlantic, because you won’t get your ankles wet in most parts of it. It’s a reasonable point, though. Except for the San Pedro waterfront, connected to the rest by a thin corridor, and Pacific Palisades, Venice, and Playa del Rey in the far west of the city, the actual City of Los Angeles is north and east of the Pacific coast, a few miles inland. Santa Monica, Torrance, Englewood, Long Beach, and a herd of smaller communities lie between it and the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/147 "2010-08-24T20:55:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All these foreigners who only know New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago… I wonder if they actually know those places, either? Someone might nod their head knowingly when you say that Milwaukee is an hour and a half north of Chicago, but do they know that Chicago is towards the northern side of the country, and about in the middle? The point isn’t so much that they know where it is as that it gives them \*something \*they recognize to grasp on to. Even if usually what they associate it with is Al Capone. :smack: But still, it’s something. Frames of reference are important; otherwise, I might as well be spouting a bunch of made-up crap at them for all the good it would do. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/148 "2010-08-25T04:57:11Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > But would you recognise the names if a Brit told you? Yorkshire, Lancashire, Suffolk, Norfolk, Warwickshire, Worcestershire (yes, the sauce), Devon, Cornwall, Kent, Essex, Sussex, Lincolnshire, Staffordshire, and on and on and on. Any of those sound familiar? > > Let me take this one for fun. I’m a Yank who’s spent about one week in Britain in my life. Here’s what I’ve gleaned from literature/pop culture… (without looking anything up)… > > Yorkshire: large area in the north > Lancashire: I know this is Liverpool because of “A Day in the Life,” and am confident > that it also includes Manchester Is it bad that I only know that these are northern places because I wanted to know why Johnny Vegas and Andrew-Lee Potts sound so different from the kids in the Harry Potter movies? I was a bit surprised that Vegas isn’t Scottish, so I decided to see how far north he was from. And that looking at a map then is why I know that most of the English names we stole for New Hampshire and Massachusetts towns (Portsmouth, Plymouth, Waymouth, Dorcester, Taunton, Falmouth, Bridg(e)water, Dover, Exeter etc) came from the south coast? Anyway, given that I met people in VA who had no idea at all where I live, I think it’s far to give the international community a pass on not knowing the northeastern states besides Massachusetts are (I _do_ expect many of them to be familiar with Boston). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/149 "2010-08-25T06:12:01Z")
> [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > Curiously, if you said you were from Baltimore, they are likely to know roughly where that is. Not in my experience. They’ve _heard_ of Baltimore - particularly since The Wire - but they don’t really have any idea where it’s located. > [@](#): > > I’m told by a postal worker, that a lot of post from the USA is addressed to Dublin, United Kingdom or Dublin, England. A fair number of people who are actually from England seem to make the same mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/150 "2010-08-25T06:47:28Z")
Got about 34 on the quiz someone linked to. I’m more of an America-phile than your average Norwegian, though. (Though I spent about three minutes of it wondering what the hell Vermont was. I also missed Arkansas because the similarity with Kansas.) RE: the “52 states” phenomenon. When I grew up, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands were tagged on our geography map in US colours. The rule was “50 states and two territories.” For a lot of people cramming for exams, this became “50 and 2,” which usually gets lodged as “52” in the back memory when you’re out of school. I think most Norwegians would be able to name 10-15 states. New York, Florida, California, Texas, Washington, Illinois and Alabama because they’re famous. Other states as they stick - funnily, most people I’ve asked remember Connecticut and Massachusetts because they’re a complete bitch to spell. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/151 "2010-08-25T12:30:13Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > > [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > > > Let me take this one for fun. I’m a Yank who’s spent about one week in Britain in my life. Here’s what I’ve gleaned from literature/pop culture… (without looking anything up)… > > > > Yorkshire: large area in the north > > Lancashire: I know this is Liverpool because of “A Day in the Life,” and am confident > > that it also includes Manchester > > Is it bad that I only know that these are northern places because I wanted to know why Johnny Vegas and Andrew-Lee Potts sound so different from the kids in the Harry Potter movies? I was a bit surprised that Vegas isn’t Scottish, so I decided to see how far north he was from. And that looking at a map then is why I know that most of the English names we stole for New Hampshire and Massachusetts towns (Portsmouth, Plymouth, Waymouth, Dorcester, Taunton, Falmouth, Bridg(e)water, Dover, Exeter etc) came from the south coast? > Anyway, given that I met people in VA who had no idea at all where I live, I think it’s far to give the international community a pass on not knowing the northeastern states besides Massachusetts are (I _do_ expect many of them to be familiar with Boston). Oddly, the North of Englanders and Scots migrated to the American South, the Home Counties and West Country people to the Northeast. One can speculate on reasons, but the actual trend seems solidly documented. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/152 "2010-08-25T14:27:27Z")
Got all 50 states in under 3 minutes, limited only by typing/spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/153 "2010-08-25T14:36:43Z")
I forgot that Cheyenne was the capital of Wyoming, I was convinced that it was Cody. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/154 "2010-08-25T16:47:10Z")
> [@Great\_Dave](#): > > I forgot that Cheyenne was the capital of Wyoming, I was convinced that it was Cody. If the second-largest city in New York sold some city buses to the Rodeo Capital of the World, would Buffalo bill Cody for them? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/155 "2010-08-25T17:24:46Z")
I don’t know, but Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/156 "2010-08-25T19:20:21Z")
Translation: Bison from upstate New York who are lied to by other bison from upstate New York themselves lie to yet more bison from upstate New York. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/157 "2010-08-26T02:34:03Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > As a precocious Canadian eight-year-old, I could name all fifty states. I was probably an exception to the rule, though. And I can rattle off all those Canadian provinces… (and each of the NW territories) Although, i’ve always wondered: is Prince Ed Island really its own province? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/158 "2010-08-26T06:01:34Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Although, i’ve always wondered: is Prince Ed Island really its own province? Why? They needed some incentive to join Canada in the first place. Otherwise, they’d have become just another miniscule U.S. state in the Northeast. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/159 "2010-08-26T06:41:35Z")
Given enough time, I could probably name all 50. Bollocks about telling you where most of them are or what the States capital is, though 🙂 As a general rule, though, I’d wager foreigners absorb a lot more culture (pop or otherwise) about the US through TV/movies/music/books and comics than the reverse. As in, I can tell you that the Village or Bel Air is where posh people are at, but could you instantly associate the same with Neuilly, Kensington or Ginza ? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967/160 "2010-08-26T07:06:31Z")
Come to think about it, isn’t it odd in itself that many Westerners, myself included, would be able to name 49 states off the top of their head (damn you, Delaware !!), yet not be able to name more than a handful of Russian oblasts, subdivisions of India or provinces of China ? And that’s not even getting into podunk places no one’s heard about like Spain or Germany 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-familiar-are-non-us-citizens-with-the-50-states/548967.md?page=9)