# How far are we from downloading memories **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846 "2016-05-15T14:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/1 "2016-05-15T14:43:27Z")
Either from the brain or the retina or any other part. Either from dead people or live. I presume we have not even taken the smallest step in that direction and that no one is actually directly researching this activity. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/2 "2016-05-15T15:15:58Z")
Seems to me human memories are made up of chemicals / brain wiring. Not something which could be “downloaded” as it is not electrical. That is not electrical unless “thought about” perhaps? Note there are “hardwired” computer memories called “masked ROMs”. The memory is “physically” etched into each bit of memory during manufacturing. And to extract the memory from that (if not doing so electrically) would pretty much destroy the device. You would need to slice it into very thin slices and then examine it under a microscope. Or another analogy… The very first computers had their programming done via the arrangement of the wiring. You would need to trace all those wires and make a diagram to extract the programming. Here is a bit on brain memory… [https://www.quora.com/How-are-memories-stored-and-retrieved-in-the-human-brain](https://www.quora.com/How-are-memories-stored-and-retrieved-in-the-human-brain) [https://www.quora.com/What-chemical-s-do-our-neurons-use-to-store-our-memories](https://www.quora.com/What-chemical-s-do-our-neurons-use-to-store-our-memories) [Watch chemicals turn into memories - the first time this has ever been recorded. | IFLScience](http://www.iflscience.com/brain/watch-chemicals-turn-memories-first-time-has-ever-been-recorded) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/3 "2016-05-15T15:25:43Z")
I’m sure you mean some kind of direct transfer of info to and from the brain without conscious effort, and I’d say we are a long way away now. But on the road to that goal we’ll go through some intermediate steps that will simplify the process we use now of recording information manually. While we have no idea how to extract existing sensory data in the brain we may be closer to feeding that information to the brain just past our sensory organs, and perhaps recording info at that point also. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/4 "2016-05-15T15:36:27Z")
The current state of our knowledge is that we don’t have a freaking clue how memories are stored. Until we get that part solved, figuring out how to (hopefully non-intrusively) store them isn’t going to happen. We have some vague notions of how the actual storage mechanism works, but the brain doesn’t store memories like a computer does. The brain breaks things down and somehow stores the little pieces. One of the reasons Kim Peek had such amazing savant abilities was because this mechanism for breaking things down didn’t work properly in his brain. Instead, his brain stored things literally, and he was often unable to understand certain things as a result. For example, he couldn’t reason his way through math problems and he could not understand metaphors as he took everything literally. Kim’s brain was in some ways a lot more like how a computer stores information. We are just barely figuring out how the actual chemical and physical processes store the memories. We’re not even close to understanding how the brain breaks things apart and processes them and later reconstructs them into memories. The brain is so different from a computer that simply downloading a brain into any kind of digital storage will never be possible. Some day we might be able to store a “brain” into a digitally emulated brain-ish device, but we only have vague notions of how this might work. We’ve got a long way to go. ---
**Author:** ![albino\_manatee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/albino_manatee/32/2_2.png) [@albino\_manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/albino_manatee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/5 "2016-05-15T16:55:02Z")
> **[Researchers show that memories reside in specific brain cells](https://news.mit.edu/2012/conjuring-memories-artificially-0322)** > > Simply activating a tiny number of neurons can conjure an entire memory. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/6 "2016-05-15T17:54:32Z")
We already do. The parts that we use to capture memories are called “paper”, “cameras”, “tape recorders”, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/7 "2016-05-15T19:40:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We already do. The parts that we use to capture memories are called “paper”, “cameras”, “tape recorders”, and so on. Absolutely, and I have trouble seeing how any future method of recording human memory could be significantly different. Paper is already superior in some ways to human memory as the act of reading paper does not alter or re-record the memory. Correct me if I am wrong, but last I heard research suggested that the very act of recalling a memory can alter it. The sci-fi concept of being able to directly record human experience/memory to some sort of machine is unlikely to be realized in such a simple form. If one wanted accuracy it would make more sense to record video, audio and other sensory input directly rather than through the veil of human experience. Human memory, although an amazing thing is not accurate in the way a camera is. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/8 "2016-05-15T21:56:07Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > Seems to me human memories are made up of chemicals / brain wiring. Not something which could be “downloaded” as it is not electrical. That is not electrical unless “thought about” perhaps? Unless you are being picky, data on a CD-ROM is not electrical either, until it is read by laser and converted to electrical signals. Ditto for my first logic lab project, an acoustic delay line memory. So any scanning technique for our memories would convert them into electrical values for processing. But since we don’t know even how they are stored, or their coding, the answer to the OP is “don’t hold your breath.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/9 "2016-05-15T22:04:20Z")
> [@albino\_manatee](#): > > [Researchers show that memories reside in specific brain cells | MIT News | Massachusetts Institute of Technology](http://news.mit.edu/2012/conjuring-memories-artificially-0322) Interesting – that article on artificially manipulating memories was written by one **Cathryn Delude**. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/10 "2016-05-15T22:17:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We already do. The parts that we use to capture memories are called “paper”, “cameras”, “tape recorders”, and so on. If I may add to this, equipping every person with a portable camera and microphone to record all of their personal experiences would be more accurate and technically far more feasible than trying to copy or record their personal memories. At the very least, the devices would act like impartial witnesses to the events. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/11 "2016-05-16T01:05:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We already do. The parts that we use to capture memories are called “paper”, “cameras”, “tape recorders”, and so on. “Either from the brain or retina or any other part.” Yes we have our memories in the form you mention but that is not what is being asked and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/12 "2016-05-16T04:45:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If I may add to this, equipping every person with a portable camera and microphone to record all of their personal experiences would be more accurate and technically far more feasible than trying to copy or record their personal memories. At the very least, the devices would act like impartial witnesses to the events. For the first half of our life, we’ll all be Gordon Bell. For the second half of our lives, we’ll watch what we did the first half. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/13 "2016-05-16T15:19:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Unless you are being picky, data on a CD-ROM is not electrical either, until it is read by laser and converted to electrical signals. Ditto for my first logic lab project, an acoustic delay line memory. So any scanning technique for our memories would convert them into electrical values for processing. > > But since we don’t know even how they are stored, or their coding, the answer to the OP is “don’t hold your breath.” Now that I think of it, perhaps mother nature has designed our memories so they are ENCRYPTED! So what is needed for this project is a code breaker.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/14 "2016-05-16T16:53:48Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > Now that I think of it, perhaps mother nature has designed our memories so they are ENCRYPTED! > > So what is needed for this project is a code breaker.😃 Even worse, each of us has our own key. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/15 "2016-05-16T17:13:43Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > “Either from the brain or retina or any other part.” Yes we have our memories in the form you mention but that is not what is being asked and you know it. Any other part, like the hand. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/16 "2016-05-16T23:06:32Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Any other part, like the hand. Hey man, you never know! ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/17 "2016-05-16T23:59:29Z")
[Optography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optography) can preserve the last image presented on the retina. It was used as a forensic method in the belief that it could preserve the last thing a murder victim saw but that usage was 100% BS. The retina does not preserve a store of images. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/18 "2016-05-17T03:05:53Z")
IMO, Optography was the activity of retrieving the last images an eye saw because eye’s owner died. (or the eye was removed or something similar.) Of course we can now say the chemistry of the eye doesn’t allow such, eg of course death is really the brain stopping, which is far more fragile than the other body parts (most body parts can be viable, as healthy and working, eg when deciding whether to amputate, re-attach or transplant … for hours without oxygen…) So the optography thing is totally debunked. However one step of the OP’s topic , reading information from the brains neurons , has just been achieved… helium microscopes… electron microscopes cause a current flow which damage the electricals of the neuron… it would necessarily interfere with the information, so the electron microscope can only show atomic level structure but not the position of electrons to suitable accuracy. The helium microscope is detecting the electricals but not changing them. These might mean that the neuron isn’t even killed, the helium microscope does no harm. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/19 "2016-05-17T06:39:04Z")
I believe there have been some rather striking results from experiments attempting to measure what a subject is actively thinking about - even to the point of being able to reconstruct a vague, blobby computer-generated image of a scene the subject is thinking about ‘in their mind’s eye’ as it were. But that’s nowhere near the same as being able to download stored memories that aren’t consciously being recalled. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846/20 "2016-05-17T06:50:22Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > So the optography thing is totally debunked. Which is pretty much what I said. In forensics, the only way the image of a dead person’s killer could be preserved using this technique is if the killer intentionally attempted to preserve it by immediately chemically fixing the image. But as a _thing_ that you can do, it exists in a laboratory setting. > [@Mangetout](#): > > I believe there have been some rather striking results from experiments attempting to measure what a subject is actively thinking about - even to the point of being able to reconstruct a vague, blobby computer-generated image of a scene the subject is thinking about ‘in their mind’s eye’ as it were. > > But that’s nowhere near the same as being able to download stored memories that aren’t consciously being recalled. Covered in one of the few _House_ episodes I’ve seen with _very poor_ science where distorted “video” images are shown in real time. For simple stimuli, there are [retinotopic maps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinotopy). Although the research I expect you’re referring you doesn’t interpret _completely novel_ stimuli. It’s more like the show you lots of objects, find out what neural patterns arise from each stimulus, and then when a random stimulus is shown, they can guess the appearance based upon which _pre-known_ stimulus most closely correlates in neural activity. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-are-we-from-downloading-memories/754846.md?page=2)