# How far away do you have to be to survive a nuclear explosion at sea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484 "2009-04-27T12:06:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/1 "2009-04-27T12:06:19Z")
Imagine that terrorists have stolen a 50KT Russian nuke. They’re transporting it in a modest-sized ship. The Americans, with the help of the Russians, have detected the ship and decide to sink the ship with a missile. As a final act of defiance, one of the terrorists manually detonates the nuke. (How they do this is beyond the scope of this thread.) How far away do you need to be to survive? Does the degree of swell make a difference? What about the curvature of the Earth? Brucie bonus: suppose it wasn’t the terrorist that detonated the nuke, but a Russian submarine taking the opportunity to test one of their nuclear-tipped torpedoes under cover of the strike? (Same power, for simplicity.) After all, the Americans know there’s a nuke there and an explosion would be possible. Now the blast is sub-surface. Does this make a difference? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/2 "2009-04-27T12:33:10Z")
For starters, read here: > **[Operation Crossroads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Crossroads)** > > Operation Crossroads was a pair of nuclear weapon tests conducted by the United States at Bikini Atoll in mid-1946. They were the first nuclear weapon tests since Trinity in July 1945, and the first detonations of nuclear devices since the atomic bombing of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945. The purpose of the tests was to investigate the effect of nuclear weapons on warships. > The Crossroads tests were the first of many nuclear tests held in the Marshall Islands, and the first to be publicly announc... ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/3 "2009-04-27T12:34:54Z")
Well, it’s not 50kT, only 23, but this was tested at Bikini Atoll. [http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq76-1.htm](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq76-1.htm) You beat me. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/4 "2009-04-27T14:18:51Z")
The Bikini Atoll tests weren’t really what I had in mind. I was thinking rather of being in a small boat on the open ocean. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/5 "2009-04-27T14:36:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The Bikini Atoll tests weren’t really what I had in mind. I was thinking rather of being in a small boat on the open ocean. Submarines are rather fragile on the surface, are they not? As for an open boat, the goats on the ships died. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/6 "2009-04-27T14:43:45Z")
True, but inside an atoll, the ocean swell is very much diminished. So, how far away would you have to be for the curvature of the Earth to have a significant effect on your exposure? And what about swell? Say a 3m swell or a 10m swell. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/7 "2009-04-27T17:12:42Z")
> [@](#): > > So, how far away would you have to be for the curvature of the Earth to have a significant effect on your exposure? This depends on how far above the surface both you and the blast are. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/8 "2009-04-27T17:31:24Z")
Couldn’t a nuclear explosion under the sea create a tsunami? If so that could have pretty devastating effects a long way away. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/9 "2009-04-27T20:26:10Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > Couldn’t a nuclear explosion under the sea create a tsunami? If so that could have pretty devastating effects a long way away. Not really. The biggest nuclear bombs are many orders of magnitude smaller than the smallest of geological events. I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation back when the Indian Ocean tsunami hit a few years ago. I forget the exact number, but the energy released was something like four or five orders of magnitude bigger than the total yield of every nuclear weapon combined. The earth will shake us off like a bad case of the flu. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/10 "2009-04-27T20:32:06Z")
Missed the edit window: Wiki says that tsunami released an amount of energy equivalent to 9,560 gigatons TNT. That’s _six_ orders of magnitude bigger than what the OP mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/11 "2009-04-27T20:59:52Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The Bikini Atoll tests weren’t really what I had in mind. I was thinking rather of being in a small boat on the open ocean. What about the crew of the [Daigo Fukuryu Maru](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukuryu_Maru)? They were in a small boat on the open sea, about 90 miles away from the explosion. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/12 "2009-04-27T21:03:13Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > The earth will shake us off like a bad case of the flu. Aren’t bad cases of influenza fatal? That is to say, not shaken off at all. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/13 "2009-04-27T22:42:42Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > What about the crew of the [Daigo Fukuryu Maru](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukuryu_Maru)? They were in a small boat on the open sea, about 90 miles away from the explosion. But that was a 15 MT explosion, not a 50KT one. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/14 "2009-04-28T00:13:50Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Aren’t bad cases of influenza fatal? That is to say, not shaken off at all. Fair enough. In my defense, I’ve been living under a rock for the last few days, so I’m only now aware of the whole flu panic thing. So it was a rather unfortunate way to mangle a half-remembered George Carlin quote. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/15 "2009-04-28T02:20:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Imagine that terrorists have stolen a 50KT Russian nuke. They’re transporting it in a modest-sized ship. The Americans, with the help of the Russians, have detected the ship and decide to sink the ship with a missile. As a final act of defiance, one of the terrorists manually detonates the nuke. (How they do this is beyond the scope of this thread.) > > How far away do you need to be to survive? Does the degree of swell make a difference? What about the curvature of the Earth? > > Brucie bonus: suppose it wasn’t the terrorist that detonated the nuke, but a Russian submarine taking the opportunity to test one of their nuclear-tipped torpedoes under cover of the strike? (Same power, for simplicity.) After all, the Americans know there’s a nuke there and an explosion would be possible. Now the blast is sub-surface. Does this make a difference? I think you are overestimating the destructive radius of a nuclear weapon. It sounds like you are expecting a crater in the ocean miles across :). Anyway, according to > **[Homepage | CTBTO](https://www.ctbto.org/)** there have been very few water tests. The only test specifically designed to occur in open water appears to have been Operation Wigwam-a 30kT weapon detonated at 2000ft in 16000ft of water 500 miles west of San Diego. It was a test to determine what would happen to a submarine near a nuclear explosion. > **[Operation Wigwam and Project 56](https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/Wigwam.html)** as you can imagine, the test object closest to the blast didn’t do well, but submerged test vehicles a few thousand feet away, survived quite well. Fallout is a major consequence of any surface or subsurface burst, but the blast effects are not as great as a comparable air burst. According to what I have read, I am not by any means an expert on this. ---
**Author:** ![Harry1945](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Harry1945](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harry1945)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-away-do-you-have-to-be-to-survive-a-nuclear-explosion-at-sea/494484/16 "2009-04-28T03:45:50Z")
My only comment is that when we would do Damage Control drills in conjunction with a simulated nuclear attack, the blast was always “…range ¼ miles” and the wind direction and speed was given. My pay grade wasn’t high enough to need to know more than that, but I always assumed that distance was what had been determined to be survivable for a surface ship.