# How far can society fall? Read on... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2006, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882 "2006-09-08T04:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/21 "2006-09-08T17:06:53Z")
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m opposed to the gang-rape of eleven-year-olds. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/22 "2006-09-08T17:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m opposed to the gang-rape of eleven-year-olds. [/QUOTE] I’ll join you out on that limb, **Excalibre**. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/23 "2006-09-08T17:13:38Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] When come back, bring reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. [/QUOTE] Oh I think I comprehended your meaning just fine. I notice that you did not attempt to address any of the content, particulalry the question asking you to point to something like this happening in the animal (including human) world. Tell me, does this not accurately communicate your attitude?: [QUOTE=Cervaise] We were formerly able to pretend that we had some sort of moral superiority as a species. We don’t. [/QUOTE] While we are animals, it does not follow that we haven’t developed a sense of morality separating us from the rest of the kingdom. Not that you were able to point to similar atrocities there. I’m sure your “we’re just animals” makes it comfortable to commit or excuse all manner of grossness that might enter your life or consciousness: Hey, why not kill that infant? He’s not your spawn, right? And that’s what lions do. Why not eat him in the process? More than a few animals will eat their own kind. No, your attitude, shrouded in a thin covering of 4th-grade anthropolgy, is just the kind of thinking that has exused more and more deviant behavior over the years, leading more people to think it’s okay to act more animal-like. I imagine, your next line of stupidity will be, "B…b…but the cavemen did it, and we’re just like them. Now why don’t you attempt to explaiin your sick worldview? Here’s your platform. Enlighten me, oh sentient biped. [QUOTE=magellan01] Do you think it is natural for adults to direct the abuse of an eleven year-old? Do you think it is natural for twenty people to set upon a child, someone that is no threat to them, and use her like a rag? [/QUOTE] And please feel free to point out similar events in the non-human world. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/24 "2006-09-08T17:20:31Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] While we are animals, it does not follow that we haven’t developed a sense of morality separating us from the rest of the kingdom. Not that you were able to point to similar atrocities there. I’m sure your “we’re just animals” makes it comfortable to commit or excuse all manner of grossness that might enter your life or consciousness: Hey, why not kill that infant? He’s not your spawn, right? And that’s what lions do. Why not eat him in the process? More than a few animals will eat their own kind. No, your attitude, shrouded in a thin covering of 4th-grade anthropolgy, is just the kind of thinking that has exused more and more deviant behavior over the years, leading more people to think it’s okay to act more animal-like. I imagine, your next line of stupidity will be, "B…b…but the cavemen did it, and we’re just like them. Now why don’t you attempt to explaiin your sick worldview? Here’s your platform. Enlighten me, oh sentient biped. [/QUOTE] You really are stupid, aren’t you? I don’t just mean that you’re wrong. I mean that you literally have some sort of natural deficit in your ability to comprehend what’s going on around you. The idea that you could possibly read this into what Cervaise wrote is giving me some new insight into the other things you’ve said around here. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/25 "2006-09-08T17:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] You really are stupid, aren’t you? I don’t just mean that you’re wrong. I mean that you literally have some sort of natural deficit in your ability to comprehend what’s going on around you. [/QUOTE] You’ve addressed the points precisely as well as I would expect you to. Your consistency is a gift. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/26 "2006-09-08T17:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m opposed to the gang-rape of eleven-year-olds. [/QUOTE] Oh, sure. Come in and boil it all down to a single sentence why don’cha? And for whatever it’s worth, I am also against gang-raping eleven-year-olds. Hell, I’m against gang-rape as a rule. Not too crazy about one-on-one rape, either. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/27 "2006-09-08T17:38:32Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] Oh, sure. Come in and boil it all down to a single sentence why don’cha? And for whatever it’s worth, I am also against gang-raping eleven-year-olds. Hell, I’m against gang-rape as a rule. Not too crazy about one-on-one rape, either. But that’s just me. [/QUOTE] Let’s not get carried away, now. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/28 "2006-09-08T17:53:05Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Let’s not get carried away, now. [/QUOTE] Right, **magellan01** has the carried away covered in this thread. **Frylock** , from [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/08/gang.assault.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > The 11-year-old girl told police she was interested in the teenage girl, who looked and dressed like a boy, authorities said in court records. She and two friends went to the teen’s house, where the child performed oral sex on three teenage boys, the court records said. > > The teenage girl’s 40-year-old uncle admitted he also had sex with the 11-year-old and told police that his niece was coaching the child, the records said. > > The 11-year-old told police she then went to the basement, where there were about 15 males and “began to choose who she wanted to perform oral sex on,” the records said. > > The teenage girl told police that the 11-year-old had told her she wanted to perform oral sex on the boys in the house, according to court records. The 16-year-old denied encouraging her. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/29 "2006-09-08T17:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Right, **magellan01** has the carried away covered in this thread. **Frylock** , from [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/08/gang.assault.ap/index.html) [/QUOTE] Okay, the story is starting to make more sense to me now. Thanks, -Kris ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/30 "2006-09-08T18:01:18Z")
Based on what’s been said in this thread (I have no desire to read news articles about it, as I find this whole thing pretty horrifying), I’m willing to bet that both the 11-year-old and the 16-year-old have had horrible, horrible things happen to them in the past. This sort of thing is just not within the realm of what normal children think of doing. Especially since the eleven-year-old was apparently a willing participant. I think the tragedy here goes back years and years. I hope the sixteen-year-old gets help for whatever the hell happened to her rather than getting tossed in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/31 "2006-09-08T18:05:07Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I’ll see your eastern Wisconsin sexual assault and raise you a western Wisconsin necrophilic assault. I feel very lucky to be in Central Wisconsin. [/QUOTE] Ed Gein practiced his “hobby” in central Wisconsin. I’d be nervous, if I were you. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/32 "2006-09-08T18:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Not to speak for \*\*Contrapunctual \*\*('cause I don’t dare), but to piggyback with what I myself believe. [/QUOTE] Oh c’mon now. Sure you can. We have one little dust-up and the well is poisoned forever? You pretty much nailed it, albeit in a less extreme and more reasoned manner. One caveat. I am obsessively punctual. What I am _contra_ to is _punts._ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/33 "2006-09-08T18:16:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Enlighten me, oh sentient biped. [QUOTE=magellan01] I’m sure your “we’re just animals” makes it comfortable to commit or excuse all manner of grossness that might enter your life or consciousness [/QUOTE] You are unenlightenable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/34 "2006-09-08T18:41:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] You are unenlightenable. [/QUOTE] Translation: Cervaise is unable to support his dumbfuck assertions. ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/35 "2006-09-08T18:56:37Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Translation: Cervaise is unable to support his dumbfuck assertions. [/QUOTE] For gosh sakes, no one is trying to excuse this behavior. NO ONE. Certainly not Cervaise. You seem to think that because we talk and have jobs and drive cars that this sort of behavior is impossible. It’s not, obviously. We are primates. And there are horrible primates out there. For the record, everyone involved (except the 11 year old) deserves any sort of prison sentence they get. There’s no excuse for this. Saying we’re primates doesn’t make it any better. And Cervaise didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/36 "2006-09-08T18:56:43Z")
Someone go find a clue-by-four, we need one here stat! **magellan01** , you truly are being exceptionally dense in this thread, aren’t you? **Cervaise** noted that a subset of people are animals. Any other assertion was made by _you_. Perhaps you object to the insult to the animal kingdom in general, however one of the definitions for animal is “A person who behaves in a bestial or brutish manner” with bestial meaning “Marked by brutality or depravity: Lacking in intelligence or reason; subhuman.” So even your pet guinea pig, Pooky, is off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![AngryIrishLass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bbce88/32.png) [@AngryIrishLass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngryIrishLass)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/37 "2006-09-08T19:12:27Z")
Wow magellan01, just wow. Jump off the deep end much? Real translation: There are dumbfucks who happen to be a part of the human race. Said dumbfucks cannot control themelves and do dumbfuck shit. The (alleged) raping of 11 year olds or any year olds wasn’t just invented. Nor was gang raping. I see no one in this thread trying to excuse the activities of the dumbfucks involved. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/38 "2006-09-08T19:15:50Z")
Sadly, some people seem to think that human beings were all sweetness and sugarplums in the past. Go take a history class, **magellan01** , and you’ll learn that we haven’t fallen-we’ve always been here. Humanity sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/39 "2006-09-08T19:23:07Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] How dare you try to excuse this behavior [/quote] Offering an explanation for the behavior is not excusing it. That’s an unfair characterization. > [@](#): > > Do you think it is natural for adults to direct the abuse of an eleven year-old? In the respect that similar things happen all too often, I think it’s best to understand that _something_ other than abstruse evil is at work. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/40 "2006-09-08T19:30:11Z")
It was reported on Milwaukee radio this morning that the 11 year old girl was born HIV positive and has AIDS. And I also am against the gang raping 11 year old girls [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882.md?page=3)