# How far can society fall? Read on... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2006, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882 "2006-09-08T04:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/101 "2006-09-09T17:08:36Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] The rape of a child is a terrible thing that cannot be forgiven. Neither, however, should it be particularly surprising. The incident is horrifying. [/QUOTE] Also, while he didn’t call it specifically “a horror,” he did call it horrifiying, which amounts to the same thing. I will guess you just missed it, which is understandable, instead of deliberately minrepresenting his position. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/102 "2006-09-09T18:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] If that is the case then no one would need to pit any atrocity ever. No one would ever have to weigh in with a vote of condemnation. [/quote] Well, yeah. Exactly. These sorts of pit threads always struck me as kinda stupid. Bad stuff happens. Let’s all look at it and congratulate ourselves for being outraged by something patently outrageous. What’s the point? We all know horrible stuff happens. We all (well, most of us, at least) know that it happens every day. The only purpose I’ve ever seen in these threads is to let everyone ogle a tragedy, like cars slowing down to get a good look at a wreck on a highway. And this isn’t even really that impressive a wreck. I’m not trying to minimize or apologize for what happened, but the girl showed up of her own free will and she was still alive at the end of it. I’ve seen too many stories of little girls who have been grabbed off the street, raped, then dumped dead in a ditch somewhere for this to warrant much more than a “tsk tsk” from me. On the scales of human atrocity, this barely registers. Far worse things have been done to children between the time I started writing this post, and the time I finally hit “Submit.” ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/103 "2006-09-09T19:31:25Z")
[Meet Kiki, the killer chimp.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/features/325feature1.shtml) Also: > [@](#): > > Orginally Posted by [**The Chimpanzee Collaboratory**](http://www.chimpcollaboratory.org/news/ahr3.asp) > _Because the chimp that was murdered had violated the rules by leaving his area of sanctuary, and entered his competitors domain. And the other chimps ganged up on him and they strangled him, broke all his bones and emasculated him._ Apes with pants, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/104 "2006-09-09T19:40:44Z")
[QUOTE=Epimetheus] Also, while he didn’t call it specifically “a horror,” he did call it horrifiying, which amounts to the same thing. I will guess you just missed it, which is understandable, instead of deliberately minrepresenting his position. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Uh, you did realize that we were talking about _his initial post_, right? The post that started this whole thing? It’s Post #3. The number of times I’ve used the phrase “his initial post” might have been a clue. No? I’ll never understand the tendency to do this. To insert your nose in a place where it really has no business without bothering to understand what the fuck is going on. So I think I’ll just paraphrase you here: I guess you just missed it, which is understandable, instead of deliberately minrepresenting what I’ve said repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/105 "2006-09-09T19:49:33Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] :rolleyes: Uh, you did realize that we were talking about _his initial post_, right? The post that started this whole thing? It’s Post #3. The number of times I’ve used the phrase “his initial post” might have been a clue. No? [/QUOTE] Well, that may be true, so basically you are twisting the conversation so you can stay idignant about the whole thing? How pathetic. It is pretty obvious Excalibre was referencing Cervaise’s LAST post, since it follows after your response to it. So basically it goes like this: Him: unclarified post You: outraged cry Him: Clarification of original post You: more outrage Excalibre: Points to clarification You: Yeah, but his first post wasn’t clear. Me: No shit, dumbass. Thats the purpose of the clarification And the second you post your dribble on a PUBLIC message board, it isn’t private anymore, and it is anybody’s business that wishes to stick their nose in it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/106 "2006-09-09T19:55:42Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Well, yeah. Exactly. These sorts of pit threads always struck me as kinda stupid. Bad stuff happens. Let’s all look at it and congratulate ourselves for being outraged by something patently outrageous. What’s the point? We all know horrible stuff happens. We all (well, most of us, at least) know that it happens every day. The only purpose I’ve ever seen in these threads is to let everyone ogle a tragedy, like cars slowing down to get a good look at a wreck on a highway. [/QUOTE] Yeah. It’s poinitless, really. But it’s done all the time. Maybe it’s to get some confirmation that the world is a sane place: “Can you fucking believe what just happened in Wisconsin…?!” [QUOTE=Miller] And this isn’t even really that impressive a wreck. I’m not trying to minimize or apologize for what happened, but the girl showed up of her own free will and she was still alive at the end of it. I’ve seen too many stories of little girls who have been grabbed off the street, raped, then dumped dead in a ditch somewhere for this to warrant much more than a “tsk tsk” from me. On the scales of human atrocity, this barely registers. Far worse things have been done to children between the time I started writing this post, and the time I finally hit “Submit.” [/QUOTE] Well, I’ll have to disagree strongly here. She was ELEVEN years old. An adult was involved. Fifteen boys were involved. Are there worse horrors? Sure. Even this one could have been worse if she was then killed and dumped in a ditch. But I don’t think that horror can be measured solely on the loss of life. There’s the depravity, the taking advantage of a child, the numbers involved. If you don’t think this qualifies as an extraordinary event we must have different definitions of “extraordinary”. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/107 "2006-09-09T20:10:51Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Yeah. It’s poinitless, really. But it’s done all the time. Maybe it’s to get some confirmation that the world is a sane place: “Can you fucking believe what just happened in Wisconsin…?!” [/QUOTE] I always thought it was so the pious among us could try to publicly one-up each other with just how outraged they are. _Oh yeah? Well I did a double-back spinning gainer into a triple lindy and then shit myself when I heard the news. Top that._ ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/108 "2006-09-09T20:18:50Z")
[QUOTE=Epimetheus] Well, that may be true, so basically you are twisting the conversation so you can stay idignant about the whole thing? [/QUOTE] Man, you’re dumb. I’ll go slow for you just this one time and then I’ll leave you to your helmet and your wall. [QUOTE=Epimetheus] If you want to understand how this whole thing blew up you need to look at **Cervaise’s** initial post. That’s where it started. If you don’t want to understand it, why are you posting. Oh yeah, another jackal with that well-ingraind pack mentality. Now, later, Cervaise provided a long post in which he explained himself fully. Any indignation I had dissolved after reading that post. Actually it began to dissolve earlier, upon reading Frylock’s take on what had transpired. [/QUOTE] Now, while **Cervaise** explained himself well, and any indignation I had disipated, I do not agree with all that he said. It became clear that he and I also have different world views and methods for coping with the horrors that confront us. I’ve explained that in detail. Then Excalibre, for some reason, comes in to address the gallery and attempt his little game of gotcha. I hope he and I are done with this nonsense, but that is now up to him. Please, read more, type less. Everbody’ll be a winner. [QUOTE=Epimetheus] And the second you post your dribble on a PUBLIC message board, it isn’t private anymore, and it is anybody’s business that wishes to stick their nose in it. [/QUOTE] No doubt. But it is it too much to ask that you know what the fuck you’re talking about first? If you go back and reread you might see a “without” you choose to ignore. Another innocent accident? Or something more dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/109 "2006-09-09T20:24:22Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Well, I’ll have to disagree strongly here. She was ELEVEN years old. An adult was involved. Fifteen boys were involved. Are there worse horrors? Sure. Even this one could have been worse if she was then killed and dumped in a ditch. But I don’t think that horror can be measured solely on the loss of life. There’s the depravity, the taking advantage of a child, the numbers involved. If you don’t think this qualifies as an extraordinary event we must have different definitions of “extraordinary”. [/QUOTE] Apparently, we do. If you really think the gang rape of a young girl is an extraordinary event, well… I’m envious of your naivete, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/110 "2006-09-09T20:33:32Z")
Hmm, that last post might come of as a bit insulting. No offence intended, **magellan**. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/112 "2006-09-09T20:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Hmm, that last post might come of as a bit insulting. No offence intended, **magellan**. [/QUOTE] None taken, but thanks for the clarification. I made a point to **Cervaise** in the same spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/113 "2006-09-09T20:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=black clasp] bad thing yes. no good. [/QUOTE] Well, you’ve been fun. Now go away. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/114 "2006-09-09T20:42:50Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Apparently, we do. If you really think the gang rape of a young girl is an extraordinary event, well… I’m envious of your naivete, to say the least. [/QUOTE] One point of clarification. I don’t think (unfortunately) than gang rape of a young girl is in and of itself a rare event. But when we add the adult, and the age of the kid, and the number of boys, then I think it does qualify as extraordinary. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/115 "2006-09-09T21:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Yeah. It’s poinitless, really. But it’s done all the time. Maybe it’s to get some confirmation that the world is a sane place: “Can you fucking believe what just happened in Wisconsin…?!” [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, as much as we would love to believe otherwise, the world often isn’t a very sane place. I’m sorry that **Cervaise** ’s pointing that out has caused so much distress. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/116 "2006-09-09T21:45:05Z")
> [@someone called like a dark fastener](#): > > bad thing yes. no good. [QUOTE=Giraffe] Well, you’ve been fun. Now go away. [/QUOTE] Wow, thank you **Giraffe**! For the record, the real quote of mine said: [QUOTE=GIGObuster] However, the legal side of me reminds me that we need more evidence, at first glance I thought they were caught in the act, but now I wonder if many are going to be falsely accused, if there is something that I hate, hate, hate! In cases like this one is that many times we get an incompetent prosecution due to ambition or the media circus. [/QUOTE] I’m, already on record of admitting my grammar is a crime against nature (English is my second language), but what “black clasp” (not worthy of being put in bold) did was beyond slander. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/117 "2006-09-09T22:22:36Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] For the record, the real quote of mine said: [/QUOTE] What the hell was that about? WHo/what the hell is a black clasp and what the hell was he doing? [QUOTE=GIGObuster] (English is my second language) [/QUOTE] For what it’s worth, I’m impressed. You write better than many native english speakers. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/118 "2006-09-09T23:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] What the hell was that about? WHo/what the hell is a black clasp and what the hell was he doing? [/QUOTE] I’ve no idea, but he’s been doing that in a bunch of different threads. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/119 "2006-09-09T23:39:48Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] _Oh yeah? Well I did a double-back spinning gainer into a triple lindy and then shit myself when I heard the news. Top that._ [/QUOTE] The Aristocrats! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/120 "2006-09-12T13:42:15Z")
To bring this hijack back on track, saw an update on the story: [40-year-old accused of sex with 11-year-old says she looked older](http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2006/09/11/wi/girl.txt) > [@](#): > > He (Freeman Gurley, the 40 year old) told the newspaper that, after returning home from work, he went to a locked bedroom in his house where he heard moaning from inside and eventually was let into the room, where he saw ``12, 13 or 14’’ other men and teens present. Suprisingly, he saw nothing wrong with this. He’s upset to find out the girl was 11. > [@](#): > > ``That’s terrible, man,‘’ he said. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882/121 "2006-09-12T15:16:14Z")
I also see from the quote that she was born HIV positive. Which, looked at one way, spells instant karma for everyone else involved, and looked at another… ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-can-society-fall-read-on/371882.md?page=7)