# How far could a sniper shoot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199 "2003-05-14T14:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/41 "2003-05-16T07:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, does the OP have any specific details on a situation where Golgo 13 made a such a 1k+ hit? With the combined powers of ballistics experts obsessed fanboys, we here could probably do a good analysis of the “realism” of the setup. Well, there are well over one hundred Golgo 13 books, each containing several stories. In pretty much each one of them G13 whacks someone from a great distance and/or under difficult situations. It’s a cartoon after all, though on the more realistic side of the genre. One story I’ve read recently finished with the man himself blowing the brains out of an arms dealer. Judging from the drawings, I’ll conservatively estimate his distance at, say, 600 yards. The target was sitting on the back seat of a car driving on the highway. At night. Having read your (as usual) enlightened responses, I very much doubt someone could pull a hit like that in real life. As I wrote in the op, 1k shots are easy for him. It seemed a lot, but reading the thread, it’s not nearly as unrealistic as I thought it was - that is, for someone who has the reputation of being “the bes in the world.” By a long shot. (Pun intended.) The problem with the realism of Golgo 13 is that, as a hit man, his “trademark” is a bullet between the eyes. I’ve read episodes where he made exception to his rule, but he seems to go for the head most of the time. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that real snipers aim for the torso, as it’s a larger target. Going for the head would be somewhat “unprofessional”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stranger\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@The\_Stranger\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stranger_1)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/42 "2003-05-16T15:22:23Z")
Real Snipers aim for the best target presented. There are so many variables possible in every scenario… i.e., is it a hostage situation? if so, where is the hostage located? is the target wearing body armor? and so on… Shot placement will vary accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/43 "2003-05-16T16:22:15Z")
"The longest shot ever recorded in South Viet Nam was in 1967. The weapon was the Remington Model 700 w/Redfield 3x9 scope The distance was 1900 meters, distance and KIA was confirmed by a Marine 1st Lieutenant 1/5" [http://www.5th-marine-snipers.com/Longest\_shot.htm](http://www.5th-marine-snipers.com/Longest_shot.htm) BTW, I read ‘sniper’ comes from the word ‘snipe’ a kind of bird tricky to catch. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/44 "2003-05-16T16:59:01Z")
I think it’s been fairly well established the Canadian sniper in Afghanistan broke that record. Of course, he likely had the benefit of a laser rangefinder to assist in plugging his victim. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/45 "2017-06-22T15:35:49Z")
New sniper record: 3,450 meters. (11318 ft.) > [@](#): > > [**Canadian Sniper Breaks World Record For Longest Shot, Kills ISIS Operative In Iraq**](http://www.ibtimes.com/canadian-sniper-breaks-world-record-longest-shot-kills-isis-operative-iraq-2555973)A Canada special elite forces sniper broke the world record for the longest kill shot in the military history. According to the Globe and Mail, the sniper whose name was withheld, fired from a stunning distance of 3,450 meters. He is a part of the Joint Task Force 2 in the Iraq Civil War. > > With this shot, the sniper has broken the previous record of 2,475 meter by Corporal of Horse, Craig Harrison of the United Kingdom who had shot a Taliban gunner in the Afghanistan War. Prior to Harrison, the title was held by another Canadian sniper, Rob Furlong when he shot and killed an Afghan insurgent carrying an RPK machine gun during Operation Anaconda. Before Furlong, the Canadian Master Corporal, Arron Perry from the same battalion held the record for a few weeks after he killed an insurgent from a distance of 2,310 meters during the same operation. U.S. Serg. Bryan Kremer has the longest confirmed sniper kill shot by a U.S. soldier in 2004 in Iraq when he shot an insurgent standing at a distance of 2,300 meters. > **[Canadian Marksman Fires World's Longest Kill Shot](https://www.ibtimes.com/canadian-sniper-breaks-world-record-longest-shot-kills-isis-operative-iraq-2555973)** > > The Canada Special Forces marksman shot from a distance of 3,450 meters and hit his target, breaking the previous record by almost 1000 meters. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/46 "2017-06-22T15:49:16Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > New sniper record: 3,450 meters. (11318 ft.) > > [Canadian Sniper Breaks World Record For Longest Shot, Kills ISIS Operative In Iraq | IBTimes](http://www.ibtimes.com/canadian-sniper-breaks-world-record-longest-shot-kills-isis-operative-iraq-2555973) Holy God. That’s well better than 2 miles (2.14+ miles). Some Canadian soldier out there is a very capable mathematician. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/47 "2017-06-22T17:14:47Z")
You can easily compensate for gravity, and with a little more difficulty compensate for wind. But one thing you can’t compensate for is movement of your target, if they’re moving in a way that’s at all unpredictable. At extreme ranges, it takes several seconds for a bullet to reach its target, and in that time the target can easily move more than the body’s width (implying that any shot that would have hit the first location would miss the second). Now, if the target is moving in a straight line at constant speed, you can lead them (aim at where they will be), but not all movement is in a straight line at constant speed: If they stop or turn, then you’ll again miss them. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/48 "2017-06-22T17:36:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You can easily compensate for gravity, and with a little more difficulty compensate for wind. But one thing you can’t compensate for is movement of your target, if they’re moving in a way that’s at all unpredictable. At extreme ranges, it takes several seconds for a bullet to reach its target, and in that time the target can easily move more than the body’s width (implying that any shot that would have hit the first location would miss the second). Now, if the target is moving in a straight line at constant speed, you can lead them (aim at where they will be), but not all movement is in a straight line at constant speed: If they stop or turn, then you’ll again miss them. You’re saying…it was a longshot? ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/49 "2017-06-22T18:45:17Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > How far away could a _very_ good shot, in the real world, **consistently** hit a target? Moving or otherwise? I don’t think world record distances for sharp shooters are really relevant in answering the question as posed; unless I’m mistaken distance records of actual military kill shots are one-offs, meaning there’s no way to know if the shooter could pull off that same shot 5 or 10 times or however you’d define “consistently” under those same conditions. They also don’t include how many 2,000 or 3,000+ m shots were missed; for all we know shooters might miss 99% of the time at such distances. Assuming someone with a _very_ good shot could perfectly compensate for all the variables (wind, gravity, humidity… how the hell do you compensate for humidity?), then the max accurate distance comes down to factors not in the shooters control (bullet defects, barrel temp, and others mentioned). You should be able to figure out the precision and accuracy of any given rifle at a certain distance by clamping it down and shooting at a target under controlled conditions. That would tell you the maximum range that you could consistently hit a target of a given size with no other variables… and rifle manufacturers must do this all the time. If you have a case where a shooter hit a target beyond this distance, you’d really have no choice but to chalk it up to luck. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/50 "2017-06-22T19:47:48Z")
> [@mmmiiikkkeee](#): > > Assuming someone with a _very_ good shot could perfectly compensate for all the variables (wind, gravity, humidity… how the hell do you compensate for humidity?)… With math. Also don’t forget at those distances, curviture of the earth AND rotation of the earth become non-trivial factors. More math. > [@](#): > > …then the max accurate distance comes down to factors not in the shooters control (bullet defects, barrel temp, and others mentioned). You should be able to figure out the precision and accuracy of any given rifle at a certain distance by clamping it down and shooting at a target under controlled conditions. That would tell you the maximum range that you could consistently hit a target of a given size with no other variables… and rifle manufacturers must do this all the time. > > If you have a case where a shooter hit a target beyond this distance, you’d really have no choice but to chalk it up to luck. Extreme long distance shots are MUCH more than luck. When you consider the variables and challenges, the chances of a random successful hit fall into the range of one round in _thousands_ - possibly _tens_ of thousands. But long-distance shooters routinely break those odds. Multi-thousand yard shots are rare, but they happen to highly-skilled shooters WELL above the realm of probability. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/51 "2017-06-22T19:57:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You can easily compensate for gravity, and with a little more difficulty compensate for wind. But one thing you can’t compensate for is movement of your target, if they’re moving in a way that’s at all unpredictable. At extreme ranges, it takes several seconds for a bullet to reach its target, and in that time the target can easily move more than the body’s width (implying that any shot that would have hit the first location would miss the second). Now, if the target is moving in a straight line at constant speed, you can lead them (aim at where they will be), but not all movement is in a straight line at constant speed: If they stop or turn, then you’ll again miss them. > [@Tranquilis](#): > > Also don’t forget at those distances, curviture of the earth AND rotation of the earth become non-trivial factors. > More math. _ **Coriolis force** _ … seriously … it really is useful in some situations and sharp-shooters do have to adjust for this … at these ranges your bullet will deflect … you’d be aiming in a rotating frame of reference … ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/52 "2017-06-22T20:12:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > _ **Coriolis force** _ … seriously … it really is useful in some situations and sharp-shooters do have to adjust for this … at these ranges your bullet will deflect … you’d be aiming in a rotating frame of reference … Hence my comment about the shooter being a capable mathematician. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/53 "2017-06-22T20:18:10Z")
Obviously for the most extreme shots, you need both skill and luck. If you just pointed the gun in the right general direction, closed your eyes, and pulled the trigger, you’d probably never have anyone hit the target, in all of the history of warfare. And there are a lot of variables that a skilled shooter can account for. But they still can’t account for everything. To go back to my moving target example, if the shooter sees how fast the target is moving and determines from that precisely how much to lead the target, that’s in the shooter’s control, and so is skill. But if the target then changes course abruptly, that’s outside of the shooter’s control, and so is luck. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/54 "2017-06-22T20:36:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You can easily compensate for gravity, and with a little more difficulty compensate for wind. I wouldn’t call compensating for gravity easy. It requires you to aim for a spot in the sky approximately ten meters above your target. That’s pretty tricky. And as you note, compensating for wind is more difficult. Unlike gravity, wind effects are variable. You have to figure out how strong the wind is and in what direction it’s moving. You have to figure out what the wind is like where you’re at, where your target is at, and along the path in between you and your target. You have to figure out how the wind is changing from moment to moment so you can anticipate how it will change as the bullet is moving. And you have to do all this judgment of something which is invisible so you can only sense it by its effects on other objects. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/55 "2017-06-22T21:11:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I wouldn’t call compensating for gravity easy. It requires you to aim for a spot in the sky approximately ten meters above your target. That’s pretty tricky. > > And as you note, compensating for wind is more difficult. Unlike gravity, wind effects are variable. You have to figure out how strong the wind is and in what direction it’s moving. You have to figure out what the wind is like where you’re at, where your target is at, and along the path in between you and your target. You have to figure out how the wind is changing from moment to moment so you can anticipate how it will change as the bullet is moving. And you have to do all this judgment of something which is invisible so you can only sense it by its effects on other objects. Specifically, the wind may be moving at multiple speeds over the course of the shot, and even in multiple _directions_. But it’s not _entirely_ true that the wind is invisible - look for the ‘mirage’ and you can sometime see the wind directly as it moves the heat waves in the air. Compensating for wind is high art, and something that requires a huge degree of developed skill. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/56 "2017-06-22T21:15:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You have to figure out how the wind is changing from moment to moment so you can anticipate how it will change as the bullet is moving. And you have to do all this judgment of something which is invisible so you can only sense it by its effects on other objects. This would be a good application for the [Beaufort wind scale.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale) > **[Beaufort scale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale)** > > The Beaufort scale ⫽ˈboʊfərt⫽ is an empirical measure that relates wind speed to observed conditions at sea or on land. Its full name is the Beaufort wind force scale. > The scale that carries Beaufort's name had a long and complex evolution from the previous work of others (including Daniel Defoe the century before). In the 18th century, naval officers made regular weather observations, but there was no standard scale and so they could be very subjective — one man's "stiff breeze" might be an... ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/57 "2017-06-22T21:25:15Z")
As for beating the odds, in the case of the Corporal of Horse that took out the machinegunner at 2400 meters, and If I Recall Correctly, he fired four shots before scoring his kill - The first was slightly short, the second was long, the third less long, and the fourth _hit the gunners personal gear_ - while the gunner was prone, presenting the minimum possible target. i.e. at 2400 meters, the shot passed literally fractions of an inch of his head. The fifth shot did for him. That’s five shots, only two of which could be mechanically predicted. The next three shots were all developed skill outside of the theoretical mechanical accuracy of the rfle, and two of those shots were within inches of dead-center. 60% of the shots in that engagement exceeded the theoretical limits of the rifle’s _known_ capability, and 40% were within a standard chest-sized target. That violates the odds in a radical manner. That’s not luck - or not entirely - that’s mostly knowing your weapon, knowing your ammunition, knowing your skills, and successfulling integrating every thing you _know_ with everything you _think_ you know to produce a result. Obviously, as more sophisticated knowledge about the art of sniping grows, the longer and longer these shots will reach out, and the more of them will happen. Tools and knowledge are expanding an a break-neck pace. It’s not very difficult for a relatively mediocre shooter, with support, a skilled spotter, and the right tools, to claim a thousand yard shot these days. That used to be the Gold Standard. It’s more of a Bronze Standard, now. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/58 "2017-06-22T22:02:15Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Obviously, as more sophisticated knowledge about the art of sniping grows, the longer and longer these shots will reach out, and the more of them will happen. Tools and knowledge are expanding an a break-neck pace. It’s not very difficult for a relatively mediocre shooter, with support, a skilled spotter, and the right tools, to claim a thousand yard shot these days. That used to be the Gold Standard. It’s more of a Bronze Standard, now. I think for precision kills going forward, material science is only going to affect the weight of the weapon and the sensor technology (includes guided rounds). The round itself, only has enough space for a certain amount of grains of powder. To consistently go further, your going to need a bigger weapon. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/59 "2017-06-23T00:40:32Z")
As of today, new world record by Canada: 3.5km. 40% farther than the previous record. > **[Canadian sniper makes history by killing ISIL insurgent from more than 3.5...](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-sniper-makes-history-by-killing-isil-insurgent-from-nearly-3-5-kilometres-away/wcm/614ab0c3-aafb-4f3c-b327-f785e76a03e3)** > > The distance is longer than most Canadian downtowns, and 40 per cent further than the last titleholder for longest sniper kill ---
**Author:** ![miketx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@miketx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miketx)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199/60 "2017-06-23T00:59:15Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > There are many variables in effect when trying to hit past 400 yards. These include bullet drop (due to gravity), wind speed, wind direction, temperature, humidity, and elevation. There are also components that contribute to random error such as variations in bullets (weight, diameter, etc.), variations in propellant, barrel temperature, buildup of powder and copper in the barrel, etc. And of course, there’s human error, which is usually the most significant component. > > The Army says 800 yards is the practical limit for 7.62 x 51; the Marines say 1000 yards. At any rate, 95% of shooters have an extremely tough time beyond 300 yards. Only a handful of people can shoot 7.62 x 51 at 800 yards and beyond. On a super long shot, the Earths rotation will affect it if shooting north and south. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-could-a-sniper-shoot/175199.md?page=4)