So its not King Ralph then?
But Leopold would never have become King of the Belgians if Charlotte had survived. There is no way that the husband of the woman who by then would have been the Queen of the UK would even have been considered for the Belgian throne in 1831. Indeed, it was precisely the fact that Charlotte was dead that got him the Belgian gig. The British government pressed for him to be appointed primarily because it enabled them to get rid of someone who, as the widower of the late heiresses presumptive, was still being supported by the Civil List but for whom there was no longer any obvious role in Britain. Packing him off to Brussels neatly solved that particular problem.
And “William the Bastard” among certain crowds as well.
What’s more, the throne of Liechtenstein should eventually be claimed by his successors to the British throne (-> brother Max -> Sophie -> Prince Joseph). Any thoughts on how to modify the Union Jack?
Yes, but as I pointed in the the prior thread: *The crown back in Anglo-saxon days did not automatically devolve unto the oldest male heir. The qualifications were: royal blood, being elected by the Witan, and being acclaimed by London.
Both Harold and William thus qualified, altho there’s little doubt that William’s “election” was at swordpoint.
Henry VII had the least claim of anyone who claimed to have the right by birth.
I also want to point out that Edward V was never King at all. He was never crowned, he never reigned. He only is on the list due to retconing by Henry VII to make his very shaky claim a little better. And of course, there’s a argument that Edward V was illegitmate. *
Emphasis added.
Except for the slight issue of neither Harold* nor William having any royal blood ;). They were both related to the throne by marriage, not blood. Edgar Atheling was the only prince of the house of Cerdic still kicking around, but history conspired against him.
ETA: * Harold speculatively had a Saxon royal descent generations back, but it pretty speculative even if not improbable. Regardless it was nowhere near as solid as Edgar’s claim.
War of the Roses had a fair few people with really tenuous claims on the throne.
The Godwinsons were in control of most of England by the Conquest, thanks really due to Pappy’s crawling to Cnut, the Danish conqueror of England; yet apart from their being Edward’s brothers-in-law there seems no valid claim for Harold — and his brother Tostig probably felt had had just as good a claim as Harold, since he fought for Norse Harald, and knowing that family possibly would have betrayed him also to gain the throne.
Jamie First and Saxt amused himself by pointing out to the remnants of the Elizabethan court, who really were experts at crawling to anyone, that his indefeasible claim from Margaret Tudor was preceded by his descent from Edgar Aetheling’s sister, also a Margaret.
However, there was the Balliol interlude in the Scottish succession which meant that now extinct family would be the heirs of St. Margaret; however that depends on John Balliol’s renunciation to the Scottish hereditaries which seems valid. At present the Head of the House of Stuart is not only Head of the Houses of Plantagenet, Tudor, etc. and various continental dynasties, but also of Cerdic.
According to David Howarth, the title didn’t bother William.
(1066 - The Year of the Conquest, p.64)
Notwithstanding Northern Piper’s clarification, statistics show that you’ll always find people on the high and low ends of the bell curve. In my family, for example: My great-grandparents on my father’s father’s side had six children and only 5 great-grandchildren. My great-grandparents on my mother’s mother’s side also had six children, but 38 great-grandchildren.
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Coronation or crowning or ruling has never decided who the Monarch is. Edward V became King the moment Edward IV (the guy whose legitimacy was in question) died. Edward VI and Edward VIII were respectively never rulers in own right and never crowned, but no one doubts their legitimacy as Kings (plus Edward is a bit of an unlucky name it seems).
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Henry Tudor became the leading Lancastrian claimant (I will ignore the Portuguese here) by virtue of being the only man in the family still breathing. After Richard had popped the two Princes (actually King and Duke of York) the senior Yorkist heir was the Elizabeth of York, Henry VII’s missus. By marrying her he solidified his dynasty’s claim.
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Interestingly at the time it was not clear whether under English law, a woman could be monarch at all…a throne could be *inherited * through a female line (the Plantagenets claim was through a female line), but until Mary came to the throne, it was not really clear.
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Another person, would be James VI/I. While by the laws of male preference primogeniture that applies today (ignoring the SCA 2013, which has not been fully implemented yet, and now might not be), he was infact the senior heir (as in the eldest direct descendant of Henry VII), under the laws of England at the time (which were based upon Henry VIII will) had the progeny of Mary Tudor (the younger sister) ahead of that of her elder sister Margaret (Jame’s great grandmother). There were under that law, at least two women ahead of him (Lady Arabella Stuart and Lady Anne Stanley)
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I wonder how low William IV went during his lifetime.
One of his descendants is David Cameron.
Wiki “Edward VI was crowned at Westminster Abbey four days later on Sunday 20 February.”
But the issue is that EdV was possibly not the rightful heir at all. And as I said in the other thread “Kingons” are mythical. Sometimes a throne is vacant. But since EdV was not legit, RIII was properly King.
And of course, Richard III had no hand in the murder of the two prices, that was clearly Henry VII.
I said EVIR was never ruler his own right, not that he was never Crowned.
BTW. Henry Tudor agreed to marry Elizabeth of York in December 1483, that would only be possible if it was generally be agreed that the “prices” (King and the DoY) were dead.Most of the Yorkists who supported Henry, did so because if his agreement to marry Elizabeth of York. None of them would have joined him, if there was a chance that EVR was still alive.
But what does 1066 and All That have to say about it?
Henry IV of France was 9th cousin once removed of his predecessor Henry III, both being descendants of Louis IX the saint who had reigned 3 centuries before. And he was the rightful heir to the crown according to Salic Law.
There was a “VIP” section in Dachau where politically significant people where detained (IIRC, rather “housed”) apart from the general population of the camp. I would guess they were detained there too.
Yep. My Relatives were sent there. The “politicals” had it a little nicer than the Jews, but not much, esp as many of them were sent to Russian Camps after being released.
I wasn’t refering to “politicals” as opposed to “racial”. I was talking about actually important people. A former Austrian chancellor and a former French prime minister were detained there, for instance. And I guess they had it much nicer than other inmates. I don’t know if it was in Buchenwald or in Dachau (he went to both) but the French PM I was refering to had a house with a garden, for example.