# how far gone can you be and CPR still work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210 "2008-05-30T23:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/1 "2008-05-30T23:39:44Z")
What still has to be functioning for the best possible cpr or electro-whatever thingy to still have a chance of bringing you back? Or how far gone before it won’t work? I need to know in case I need to play dead for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/2 "2008-05-31T00:08:36Z")
CPU rarely if ever brings anyone back. It’s to keep things semi-viable until real help (in the form of drugs, and shock paddles) arrives. Only in the case of electrocution or drowning does CPR by itself have a real chance of reviving anyone. The general rule is that if you are without oxygen for for 3-5 minutes then you will have some brain damage. Beyond that and things get increasingly ragged. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/3 "2008-05-31T00:23:21Z")
Speaking strictly as a first responder, not a medical professional… CPR is used to keep the blood and oxygen flowing until someone with better equipment arrives. The best bet to revive someone is with a defibrillator, but defibs only work if there is some electrical activity in the heart. CPR sometimes can bring someone back to a shockable rythmn. But not often. When the paramedics get there the drugs they can pump in can help (I won’t even get into what they do with the drill). But usually not. Mostly if your heart stops you’re toast. The sooner someone gets a defib on you the better. After just a couple of minutes it’s too late for most. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/4 "2008-05-31T01:07:51Z")
Please, get into what they do with the drill. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/5 "2008-05-31T01:18:38Z")
I think that there are rare circumstances where someone plunges head first into very cold water and it triggers a reflex that instantly slows body processes way down. If I have seen documented cases of this on TV shows a long time ago and people were resuscitated after a very long time in the water. I think some claimed it was 15 - 30 minutes but I don’t know if that is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/6 "2008-05-31T01:32:42Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] Please, get into what they do with the drill. [/QUOTE] [This.](http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=3599&siteSection=6) The first time I saw it it freaked me out. Drilling into the tibia sounds about how you think it would. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/7 "2008-05-31T01:34:37Z")
Whoa. Awesome! They _drill into your bone_ to give you drugs! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/8 "2008-05-31T01:41:24Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] I think that there are rare circumstances where someone plunges head first into very cold water and it triggers a reflex that instantly slows body processes way down. If I have seen documented cases of this on TV shows a long time ago and people were resuscitated after a very long time in the water. I think some claimed it was 15 - 30 minutes but I don’t know if that is accurate. [/QUOTE] There have been cases of people being submerged in frigid water for over an hour and revived successfully, but you wouldn’t perform CPR on them. They would need to be warmed very carefully and gently in a hospital setting. The trauma CPR would probably eliminate any chance for a successful recovery. > **[Figure 8 Films](https://www.figure8films.tv/shows/cws.htm)** ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/9 "2008-05-31T04:36:58Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] Whoa. Awesome! They _drill into your bone_ to give you drugs! [/QUOTE] Just did it Wednesday morning. We use [these](http://www.vidacare.com/Products/index_4_29.html). > [@Telemark](#): > > CPU rarely if ever brings anyone back. It’s to keep things semi-viable until real help (in the form of drugs, and shock paddles) arrives. Only in the case of electrocution or drowning does CPR by itself have a real chance of reviving anyone. Defibrillation is the most important thing, but it won’t work without CPR first. The chances of survival without CPR decrease by [7-10% for every minute without CPR.](http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3012016) St. Urho Paramedic ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/10 "2008-05-31T17:10:54Z")
[QUOTE=St. Urho] Just did it Wednesday morning. We use [these](http://www.vidacare.com/Products/index_4_29.html). Defibrillation is the most important thing, but it won’t work without CPR first. The chances of survival without CPR decrease by [7-10% for every minute without CPR.](http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3012016) St. Urho Paramedic [/QUOTE] Thanks. Every minute after what, without CPR. Heart completely stopping? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/11 "2008-05-31T17:17:06Z")
[QUOTE=drhess] Thanks. Every minute after what, without CPR. Heart completely stopping? [/QUOTE] You don’t do CPR unless the heart is stopped. Otherwise it would be assault. (There can be heart activity which you could see on a monitor but no pulse can be felt.) ---
**Author:** ![KCB615](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@KCB615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCB615)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/12 "2008-05-31T17:18:41Z")
We’re just starting to get the IO drills (prehospital) out here. I have to say, it’s a disturbing sight to behold. A few years ago, there was talk of doing IO’s into the sternum. Has that gone by the wayside, or is that still coming to a rescue near you (me)? ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/13 "2008-05-31T19:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] You don’t do CPR unless the heart is stopped. Otherwise it would be assault. (There can be heart activity which you could see on a monitor but no pulse can be felt.) [/QUOTE] That’s mostly, but not entirely, true. In an infant or child with a heart rate less than 60, we’ll do CPR. For adults (in this case, anyone over 8), it is true. > [@KCB615](#): > > We’re just starting to get the IO drills (prehospital) out here. I have to say, it’s a disturbing sight to behold. > > A few years ago, there was talk of doing IO’s into the sternum. Has that gone by the wayside, or is that still coming to a rescue near you (me)? I figure that if you’re getting an IO, it’s the least of your worries… There’s actually a video out there of one of the VidaCare reps drilling his own leg :eek: It really is a great tool, especially for people in or near to cardiac arrest. It’s tough to get an IV when someone’s circulatory system has collapsed and we can give fluids and any meds we can give IV through the IO. Sternal IOs are out there, but they’re less popular than the tibial/humeral IOs. [The FAST1](http://www.pyng.com/products/). ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/14 "2008-05-31T19:13:55Z")
[QUOTE=drhess] Thanks. Every minute after what, without CPR. Heart completely stopping? [/QUOTE] Sorry, forgot to answer this. Yes. For every minute without a pulse. ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/15 "2008-05-31T22:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=St. Urho] That’s mostly, but not entirely, true. In an infant or child with a heart rate less than 60, we’ll do CPR. For adults (in this case, anyone over 8), it is true. I figure that if you’re getting an IO, it’s the least of your worries… There’s actually a video out there of one of the VidaCare reps drilling his own leg . [/QUOTE] Getting off my own topic, but doesn’t drilling into the leg hurt like hike and likely cuase some pretty severe shock itself? Or is it not really drilling (ala dentistry or drill and bit drilling). ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-gone-can-you-be-and-cpr-still-work/451210/16 "2008-05-31T23:26:58Z")
I’ve never had one, and I hope I never do. That said, there’s not a lot of nerve endings in your bone itself. People who have had one and are conscious for it report feeling an uncomfortable pressure when fluids/meds are infused into the bone marrow rather than pain from the needle. The guy in the following video rates the pain at 2/10 and he watched the whole thing. It’s actual drilling-[watch here](http://www.vidacare.com/reports/Insertion%201.mpg)- Warning- Quick Time movie. It drills a hole through your bone to insert a 15 gauge metal catheter. There’s a metal stylet inside the catheter with the drill bit parts and to prevent the catheter from getting plugged with bone. Once it’s in you take out the stylet. We don’t actually aspirate like they do in the movie. After that, it works just like an IV.