# How far inland can a dune arise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2024, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092 "2024-02-04T10:43:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/1 "2024-02-04T10:43:52Z")
I am now giving the novel that I wrote last year a 5th revision before I offer it to further publishers. I would like to fact-check a little detail I put in one chapter. Specifically, I describe a location in the novel as having once been a dune, which gave the lawn on that location a sandy quality. Given the exact location, I would like to know if this description is realistic. The place described is in North York in Toronto, I would estimate half a mile to a kilometer from the city’s Northern border. Toronto is on Lake Ontario, which circa 12500 BP was a significantly deeper glacial lake retroactively named Lake Iroquois. Its shoreline extended some number of kilometers past Toronto’s downtown of today into the middle of the city. However, it doesn’t seem to have stretched all the way to Northern North York (however, I have found references to “Lake Lundy”, an even earlier iteration of the glacial lake, which apparently was even wider-stretching). As I understand, sand dunes are formed when shorelines regress. Would a location as I describe above have ever held something like a dune, and if not, would there have been another manner for the lawn to become sandy? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/2 "2024-02-04T11:34:05Z")
Can’t speak specifically about North America, but wherever there is a prevailing wind and a geographical setting that creates sandy-silty-clayey sediment, it will get wind-blown and usually form a dune bordering the lake / river / claypan. There are source-bordering sand dunes on lakes in central Australia going back to the wet pre-glacial period, so distance from the open sea is irrelevant. Shorelines in lakes can regress because they are tidal, or they are affected by cyclical weather [snowmelt, wet seasons etc]. Don’t know how you most easily get sand in a glaciated environment. Maybe an old moraine gets eroded and washed out? ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/3 "2024-02-04T12:35:03Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > As I understand, sand dunes are formed when shorelines regress. There are sand dunes in Death Valley which is at least 200 miles from the coastline. Though I guess they may have been formed when a former lake dried up? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/4 "2024-02-04T12:35:53Z")
There are sand dunes in Mongolia, in the middle of Asia. Most sand dunes have nothing to do with shores. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/5 "2024-02-04T12:42:01Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > Toronto is on Lake Ontario, which circa 12500 BP was a significantly deeper glacial lake retroactively named Lake Iroquois. Its shoreline extended some number of kilometers past Toronto’s downtown of today into the middle of the city. The Iroquois shoreline is above Davenport Road, so pretty far from your postulated Finch dune. As an aside, I live right on the crest of the shoreline. No dunes in my backyard. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/6 "2024-02-04T12:44:09Z")
[Great Sand Dunes National Park. Colorado.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sand_Dunes_National_Park_and_Preserve) They reach up to 750 feet tall. I’ve been there. It’s just like regular sand that you might find at a beach. ---
**Author:** ![vbob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vbob/32/4439_2.png) [@vbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vbob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/7 "2024-02-04T12:51:28Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Most sand dunes have nothing to do with shores. Mars, not to mention Tatooine… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/8 "2024-02-04T13:12:50Z")
Also, while not as far inland or nearly as high: [White Sands National Monument](https://www.nps.gov/whsa/index.htm) and [Little Sahara State Park (OK)](https://www.travelok.com/state-parks/little-sahara-state-park) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/9 "2024-02-04T14:25:18Z")
Manitoba’s [Spirit Sands](http://www.manitobatrailsproject.ca/trail-list/spirit-sands-self-guiding-trail/) is a region of particularly sandy soil and dunes that is quite far inland. It arose as the delta where the Assinboine River flowed into [Lake Agassiz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz), a glacial lake that formed at the south margin of the retreating ice cap near the end of the last ice Age. In your part of the country you had a glacial lake called [Lake Ojibway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Ojibway), so it’s plausible that you could have similar land formations there. Whether or not they actually exist is another question. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/10 "2024-02-04T14:42:14Z")
> [@vbob](#): > > Mars, not to mention Tatooine… Hello, Arrakis? ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/11 "2024-02-04T15:05:50Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Don’t know how you most easily get sand in a glaciated environment. The glacier grinds and scrapes the bedrock into almost every imaginable grain size, from dust to house-sized boulders, which glacial meltwaters then segregate and transport into various deposits, sand included. That’s roughly how it went here, where there was c. 3km of glacial ice on top of the bedrock, and very quickly (geologically speaking) none at all. Also, there are sand dunes hundreds of kilometers from a mentionable shore. Or what others already said. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/12 "2024-02-04T17:30:54Z")
as said above, there is no requirement for proximity to water: > Sand dunes are created when wind deposits sand on top of each other until a small mound starts to form. Once that first mound forms, sand piles up on the windward side more and more until the edge of the dune collapses under its own weight. If you need to know more science and how the many different types of dune are formed, you can read the full article here: > **[Geology of Great Sand Dunes National Park | U.S. Geological Survey](https://www.usgs.gov/geology-and-ecology-of-national-parks/geology-great-sand-dunes-national-park)** > > The sand dunes here are the highest in the U.S., some rising over 750 feet! ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/13 "2024-02-04T17:44:40Z")
Does a map like this help? > **[Toronto Soil Map For Landscaping](https://torontolandscaping.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/toronto-soil-map-for-landscaping/)** > > Being a landscape contractor in Toronto I can’t help but notice the soil in which I work. I’ve dug holes all across Toronto. Big, deep ones for foundations and shallow, wide ones for patios. From E… North York seems to have a mix of clay and sand soil, at least from a gardening perspective so a given property might be as you described it in your book. Whether that area might ever have been described as a “dune”, I don’t know. I’ve opened a couple of documents that came up when I searched “geology north York Ontario” which seem to align with that one to different levels of detail. It’s a very well researched area but well beyond my knowledge level! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/14 "2024-02-04T17:50:03Z")
And even if the sandy soil didn’t actually come from long-ago dunes, it’s still something that a character might plausibly say as an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-inland-can-a-dune-arise/997092/15 "2024-02-15T00:32:26Z")
Fans of inland sand dunes usually are aware of [Bruneau Dunes State Park](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruneau_Dunes_State_Park) in Idaho. They claim that it " is the site of North America’s tallest single-structured sand dune, which is approximately 470 feet (140 m) in height." There are numerous “Sand Hills” in Idaho. My g-grandfather had a ranch in one such locale and my cousins still ride 4-wheelers all over them.