# How far to the left is MoveOn, really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265 "2005-01-05T20:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/21 "2005-01-06T01:12:50Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But I don’t see MoveOn’s stance on Afghanistan as reason to regard them as beyond the pale, even though I see it as very wrong. The GOP consorts with those who believe abortionists should be executed ([Sen. Tom Coburn](http://www.fox23.com/news/state/story.aspx?content_id=BF956298-934E-4B30-B9D3-DC274E134AF4)), those who believe 9/11 happened because of lefty sexual degeneracy (Jerry Falwell), those who think whipping children between 18 months and 6 years old with a switch is a perfectly reasonable and normal way to keep them in line ([James Dobson](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5676999&postcount=41)), those who believe the Japanese-American internment camps during WWII are justified ([Michelle Malkin, Daniel Pipes](http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2309)), and those who work to eliminate prohibitions on the use of torture ([Alberto Gonzales](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/05/politics/05gonzales.html?ei=5094&en=ffaa199669f32a7e&hp=&ex=1104987600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&position=)). Yes. And the Republicans have variously been described as anti-woman, reactionary, cruel, bigoted and disrespectful of international law by this association. However, this was not the question posed to me at the time. The question was what the Democrats needed to do to regain credibility on national security and defense. I gave an honest answer, based on quite compelling evidence. Now, you as a party may decide that MoveOn’s wonderful qualities overcome many of their shortcomings. Certainly the Republicans have decided this regarding the individuals you mentioned. The danger of this is that someone may look at MoveOn’s rediculously naive viewpoint on national security and have this strengthen a perception of Democratic weakness that is already present. Our country is at war, and concerns about this war are foremost in many minds. MoveOn’s position is not a workable one in this environment, and their association with the Democrats represents, to me, the worst possible political move. Taking the wrong position for the sake of fewer votes isn’t principled politics, it is instead the road to irrelevancy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/22 "2005-01-06T01:22:11Z")
Does [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) put out policy statements so that we use those to judge how “left” they are? The points brought up so far (like **Debaser** ’s) are tangential statements without any real meat on them. I spent a little time on the web site, but I didn’t find a summary of their policy statements, if they in fact have any. Do they have a mission beyond getting Democrats elected and making sure Republicans don’t? Even if that were the case, I don’t see that that would make them “far left”, per se. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/23 "2005-01-06T01:34:39Z")
Fervently and with all my heart. They supported the people that attacked us. But something happened on the way to destroying the Taliban. Hmmm…trying to remember…ah! Iraq! Suddenly we had to put the Taliban on the back burner. Because we had to take Saddam out. Now Saddam is in jail. Our finest are dying in Iraq. And the Taliban is rebuilding. This is a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/24 "2005-01-06T01:37:50Z")
BTW…if I look to the right…I see [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org)! They need to go much more to the left. To hell with playing to the center. The center gives us Bush again. And I see with Jeb’s trip to Indonesia they are readying him for 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_the_Plumber)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/25 "2005-01-06T01:47:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I did. Still do. > > I remain unconvinced that the Taliban could have turned over ObL even had they wanted to. Seems to me, we were nearly desperate to hit somebody, right now, as hard as we can. And there they were. So we did. Take that, somebody! > > And what have we gained? We have a perfectly decent man as mayor of Kabul. Period. That’s it. In addition, we have saddled ourselves with several perfectly odious regimes as allies. When you lie down with dogs, etc. We’ve also done wonders for local warlords and opium crops. The “pharmaceutical” industry is flourishing like never before. (But the CIA was behind that anyway) We’ve proven that, without a doubt, America can kill a lot of people and topple shoddy and poorly equipped and prepared governments, and leave behind nations in near total anarchy outside of tightly controlled centers of power. Go America! We did the geopolitical equivilant of punching a hamster with 4 broken legs in the stomach. For what it is worth, I appear to have been more pro-war in Afghanistan than the Bush Administration was. They put, what, 11,000 boots on the ground and incompetently fumbled around blindly, looking like complete jackasses, unable to fight people living in caves as they slipped away into our regional ally. They did manage to bomb the Red Cross there repeatedly, eventually forcing a ICRC/RC pullout, maybe because it is marked by a giant freaking red cross on the top of the building. I can see how the GPS got confused. Oh, and that natural gas pipeline Moore talked about in F 9/11? Yea, that went well. Go figure. With **Debaser** ’s debasement seemingly ongoing and of much interest in this thread, I’m sure it’ll wrap up well. I especially love the “What? Fox is a right-wing spin station? No way!” face that they put on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/26 "2005-01-06T03:12:43Z")
Regardless of what any posters here might say, taking the position that the Afghanistan invasion was a mistake is what I’d call “far left”. We had bipartisan and international support for that effort. To the extent that MoveOn did in fact oppose that war\*, I’d say that one mark on the “far left” column. Anybody got anything else, policy wise? \*It’s unclear to me from the cites given so far that they actually did \*\*fully \*\*oppose the war. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/27 "2005-01-06T03:13:17Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Right now on the [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) main page: (in order) > > They are trying to silence Sinclair broadcasting because it’s not liberal enough. :rolleyes: From [http://www.moveon.org/front/:](http://www.moveon.org/front/:) > [@](#): > > **Keep Sinclair’s Bias Off The Local News** > Every night, Sinclair Broadcasting vice president Mark Hyman gives a conservative rant — called “The Point” — which most of Sinclair’s 62 stations are required to air during their local news. “The Point” predictably attacks Democrats and progressives while praising George Bush. No counterpoint is offered. This is an abuse of the public airwaves. Our friends at Media Matters for America are spearheading a campaign to demand balance on Sinclair’s evening news by telling Sinclair’s advertisers about the partisanship they’re supporting. ‘Bout fuckin’ time. Why does this rate your rolleyes? > [@Debaser](#): > > They claim (without any links or sources) that Tom Delay is likely to be indicted in a fundraising scandal that the evil Republicans secretly voted to stop. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > **Expose Republicans’ Secret Ethics Vote** > Tom DeLay, the top House Republican leader and one of the most powerful men in Washington, is very likely to be indicted soon in a fundraising scandal in Texas. House ethics rules would have required him to step down — until Republican House members recently eliminated that rule in a secret vote. The secrecy of the vote ensured that no Republican could be held publicly accountable for this act of cronyism. MoveOn members from relevant districts are calling to ask their Representatives how they voted. Whether DeLay is “likely to be indicted” is debatable, but the vote on the ethics rules is a matter of record. What’s your point? > [@Debaser](#): > > They have a petition that demands an investigation into the 2004 election. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > **Investigate the Vote** > Questions are swirling around whether the election was conducted honestly or not. We need to know — was it or wasn’t it? If people were wrongly prevented from voting, or if legitimate votes were mis-counted or not counted at all, we need to know so the wrongdoers can be held accountable, and so we can prevent this from happening again. Members of Congress are demanding an investigation to answer this question. > Sign our petition – Over 400,000 have signed so far . So what’s wrong with a petition? Or an investigation? > [@Debaser](#): > > They claim the Iraqi war is far graver than Vietnam. :rolleyes: Actually, they were just quoting the opinion of a retired Army general. > [@](#): > > **Uncovered: The Whole Truth about the Iraq War** > Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (Ret .), > “This is far graver than Vietnam. There wasn’t as much at stake strategically, though in both cases we mindlessly went ahead with the war that was not constructive for US aims. But now we’re in a region far more volatile, and we’re in much worse shape with our allies." How did we get into this mess? Check out the documentary that [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) helped launch at: > [www.truthuncovered.com](http://www.truthuncovered.com). > [@Debaser](#): > > They claim that “Seven days a week, 24 hours a day, Fox News Channel turns Republican talking points into news headlines.” :rolleyes: Just a blurb for advertising _Outfoxed,_ and don’t knock it if you haven’t seen it. And what else would you expect to read in a blurb advertising _Outfoxed?_ > [@](#): > > **Taking on Fox** > Seven days a week, 24 hours a day, Fox News Channel turns Republican talking points into news headlines. Now “Uncovered” director Robert Greenwald – working with a group of Fox-monitoring MoveOn members – has put together a documentary film called Outfoxed that exposes Fox for what it is: partisan spin, not news. > Read the complaint filed with the FTC [PDF] > Download a printable copy of the petition and sign up others [PDF] ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/28 "2005-01-06T06:28:58Z")
This OP speaks volumes about the biases of the resident SDMB conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/29 "2005-01-06T14:33:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Regardless of what any posters here might say, taking the position that the Afghanistan invasion was a mistake is what I’d call “far left”. Except that I’m about as left as you’re likely to encounter and I don’t know of anyone among my insular little world that claims that Afghanistan was a mistake. Quite to the contrary, they say (as do I, as do any number of people posting here) that it was proper. The problem is that it was done in a decidedly half-assed fashion with absolutely no idea what to do once the Taliban was defeated. So, to reiterate: The invasion was not a mistake. The way that the US waged war (cheaply, with no idea what to do once they had won) **was** a mistake. And in answer to the OP: Not very. Despite the wailing that they “Ran ads comparing Bush to Hilter”\* or the scathingly witty exposition by local conservatives of what appears on their front page. They’re left, sure. But I don’t see a problem with that. It’s not like they openly lied to denigrate Bush, which makes them pretty goddamned saintly compared to “that other 527” the Swifties. \*They did no such fucking thing. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/30 "2005-01-06T14:36:30Z")
John Mace, I’ve looked high and low in moveon’s site and see no statement of opposition to the Afghan war. Do you have a cite to verify that moveon opposed the Afghan war? ---
**Author:** ![seal\_tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@seal\_tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_tamer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/31 "2005-01-06T14:47:27Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > And I see with Jeb’s trip to Indonesia they are readying him for 2008. Thats exactly what _I_ thought, too. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/32 "2005-01-06T15:02:06Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Does [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) put out policy statements so that we use those to judge how “left” they are? The points brought up so far (like **Debaser** ’s) are tangential statements without any real meat on them. I spent a little time on the web site, but I didn’t find a summary of their policy statements, if they in fact have any. I was unable to find anything by searching the site either. They do have an “about” page where they say this: > [@](#): > > At MoveOn, every member has a voice in choosing our shared direction. Using our ActionForum software, you can propose issue priorities and strategies. Others will see and respond to your suggestions, and the most strongly supported ideas will rise to the top. We adopt the issues that rise to the top as our campaign priorities. In 2000, for example, our members chose campaign finance reform and protection of the environment as our two top issues. In 2003, Iraq and media reform rose to the top. We’ll also continue take the initiative to organize quick action on other timely issues as they arise. The lack of a clear list of objectives or policy issues is why I chose to simply look at the half dozen items on the main page as a place to start. > [@](#): > > Do they have a mission beyond getting Democrats elected and making sure Republicans don’t? Even if that were the case, I don’t see that that would make them “far left”, per se. It seems as if their mission is whatever their two million members say it is. Since it’s fair to say that their members represent about the most far left two million people in the country, their mission tends to be promoting a far left agenda. When you take an extreme left group of people and let them drive the agenda, then you end up with ads comparing Bush to Hitler and lots of conspiracy nonsense like investigating an election that no reasonable person disputes. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/33 "2005-01-06T15:03:40Z")
Sorry to be unclear: The first and last quotes above are **John Mace**. The middle on is from Moveon’s site. Although, if you can’t tell the difference between **JM** and Moveon, then you probably don’t have too firm a grasp on the English language. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/34 "2005-01-06T15:16:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > John Mace, I’ve looked high and low in moveon’s site and see no statement of opposition to the Afghan war. Do you have a cite to verify that moveon opposed the Afghan war? Please check out my cites, posted above. I think I have demonstrated that MoveOn opposed military action in Afghanistan at the time. I’m frankly not surprised that you’ll not find much about this opposition on MoveOn’s page now. Embarassing stuff like that tends to vanish from web sites as events overtake them. Successful policy doesn’t just depend on being right, it depends on being right at the right time. MoveOn failed this test after our country was attacked - the best people can do when faced with this evidence is state that they support MoveOn despite this position. That, or demonstrate through their own rhetoric that they don’t support national defense either. If you want to consort with them, that’s your call. But sharing a long car ride with someone means you’ll be carrying their baggage too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/35 "2005-01-06T15:30:23Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ve never said that moveon is “unacceptable offensive”. I don’t think anyone has actually said this, except for you and the OP. Since you made this term up, why do you expect us to back it up? Scroll up. A. I was replying to **UncleBeer** , not you. He makes clear that he considers MoveOn “unacceptably offensive” simply because it supports Democrats - and that is an answer to the OP question, of sorts. Unc, your candor here is refreshing, even if it oddly doesn’t lead you to condemn the Swifties for supporting Republicans just as faithfully partisanly. B. I was not the OP, and did not “make this term up”. Got it now? Other than that, though … > [@](#): > > The simple fact is that Moveon is a far left radical group. Explain. Less bluster, more facts. > [@](#): > > They turn off most Americans when they compare Bush to Hitler in an ad or post nonsense on the main page of their site. \*They \* did not compare Bush to Hitler in an ad. You know the situation, or have no excuse not to, and to repeat that meme is an example of “tighty spin” - iow, lying. Got that now too? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/36 "2005-01-06T15:32:10Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > …it’s fair to say that their members represent about the most far left two million people in the country… And you know this…how? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/37 "2005-01-06T15:32:30Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > …When you take an extreme left group of people and let them drive the agenda, then you end up with ads comparing Bush to Hitler and lots of conspiracy nonsense like investigating an election that no reasonable person disputes. First, as you already know, there was no such “ad”. There was an ad _contest_. Submissions were offered for general review and participants encouraged to vote their favorites. The dreaded “Bush = Hitler” ads were largely ignored by the MoveOn participants. At no time was there ever any possibility of their being selected and funded. Zero, zip, none, nada. Now then: if your laughable assessment of MoveOn as being “extreme left” were accurate, how do you account for the unpopularity of those ads? And how can we politely address your dissemination of blatant falsehood? As to investigating elections: investigating elections is _always_ legitimate, and the final outcome has diddly squat to do with it. There is no concept more fundamental, more essential, to our system of governance than the right to vote. We have to hold it as virtually sacred, it is not to be trifled with. By anyone. Ever. Whether or not such violations of sacred principle are effective or ineffective is a sophist’s argument, unworthy of belaboring harmless electrons. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/38 "2005-01-06T15:37:15Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Please check out my cites, posted above. I think I have demonstrated that MoveOn opposed military action in Afghanistan at the time. Thank you kindly, Mr. Moto. I don’t always have the time to read each and every cite from each and every poster. It wouldn’t be like you to make a statement without cause, so I knew you’d have it. I assume you meant [this one.](http://web.archive.org/web/20030505071205/peace.moveon.org/peace.php3) and this quote > [@](#): > > We recognize that we are now in a world where indiscriminate military actions can make us less safe, rather than more, and we believe that the best security for the U.S. and the world is peace–peace, particularly, in the Middle East. The world has an opportunity to unite for one goal. We call upon our leaders and our neighbors to demand loud and clear that the U.S. join the globe in forging a response to this terrorism that does not escalate the cycle of world violence, and cost more human life. With respect to Iraq, I support the above statements. With respect to Afghanistan, I don’t. I make the distinction that terrorists were running amok in Afghanistan but not Iraq. But on the whole I think moveon is pretty much in tune with me. I think each of us can support the overall goals and policies of a group without necessarily endorsing each and every one. So they’re a bit more pacifist than I would be about Afghanistan- I can live with that and I still wouldn’t call them a fringe group. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/39 "2005-01-06T15:38:42Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I said MoveOn’s position regarding the Afghanistan conflict wasn’t one that contributed to our national security. > > MoveOn has been attempting lately to sound more hawkish on the Afghanistan conflict, yet to my knowlege they haven’t renounced their previous actions and petitions that were unabashedly against war there. > > I posted proof of this in the other thread, and I’d like your opinion, **RTFirefly** , whether the position articulated in these archived links is one you would support. Neither of these quotes appear to specifically oppose the war in Afghanistan. Do you have something a little more convincing? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265/40 "2005-01-06T15:42:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **debaser** , not a single one of your complaints is free of your own tighty spin. > [@Mtgman](#): > > Could you provide direct quotes to support your summaries? I’m surprised by this resistance to my post. Let me defend them each: > [@Debaser](#): > > They are trying to silence Sinclair broadcasting because it’s not liberal enough. Moveon’s headline for this reads: > [@Moveon](#): > > Keep Sinclair’s Bias Off The Local News It sounds like they are trying to silence them to me. They also say that Sinclair presenting a conservative rant without balancing with a counterpoint is “an abuse of the public airwaves.” This is silly because the massive majority of the media in print and television is biased to the left. However, the leftists members of Moveon can see the media to their right because they are so far left anything would be. > [@Debaser](#): > > They claim (without any links or sources) that Tom Delay is likely to be indicted in a fundraising scandal that the evil Republicans secretly voted to stop. They say that: > [@Moveon](#): > > Tom DeLay, the top House Republican leader and one of the most powerful men in Washington, is very likely to be indicted soon in a fundraising scandal in Texas. Time will tell. If DeLay is indicted, I’ll retract this point. For some reason, I doubt I will need to. > [@](#): > > They have a petition that demands an investigation into the 2004 election. The petition is very simple. Here it is in it’s entirety: > [@Moveon](#): > > “Congress must investigate the integrity of the voting process in the 2004 election.” My summary was accurate. They want to investigate the election. > [@Debaser](#): > > They claim the Iraqi war is far graver than Vietnam. > [@Moveon](#): > > This is far graver than Vietnam. The “this” that they are referring to is the Iraqi War. True, they are quoting a Retired Army General. But, it is clearly the opinion of Moveon as well. If they disagree with it then what is it doing on the main page of their site? > [@Debaser](#): > > They claim that “Seven days a week, 24 hours a day, Fox News Channel turns Republican talking points into news headlines.” > [@Moveon](#): > > Seven days a week, 24 hours a day, Fox News Channel turns Republican talking points into news headlines. I quoted Moveon directly here. \*\*Note: The list of stories on the main page has changed since my first post to this thread. If you look now, there are a couple of new ones. * * * Posters such as **BobLibDem** , **Evil Captor** , **E72521** , **BrainGlutton** and others seem to agree that my summaries are accurate but have posted to the effect that these positions and statements do not indicate that Moveon is a fringe left organization. To this I simply disagree. It is of course a matter of opinion. It’s your right to think that Sinclair needs to be silenced, and that DeLay is going to be indicted. You are free to think that an investigation of the election is worthwhile, and that Fox News does nothing but turn GOP talking points into headlines. However most people do not think these things. Sinclair broadcasting might be conservative, but that hardly makes up for the fact that 80% or so of the media is made up of democrats and newspapers and networks are overwhelmingly liberal. I doubt that DeLay is going to be indicted. Investigating the election is a waste of time, IMO. Nobody except for fringe leftists like those in Moveon and on the Democrat Underground dispute that Bush won fair and square. Fox News has both conservative and liberal views represented on it’s program. The straight news reporting is very fair and balanced on Fox. It’s overwhelming popularity vs the traditional liberal media choices is a testiment to the fact that most people agree with this. When you take the most liberal people in the country and let them choose the agenda of an organization, you are going to get a fringe left organization whos goals and motives are not ones that resonate with most people. It’s funny that so many of you are so far to the left yourselves that you cannot see this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-to-the-left-is-moveon-really/283265.md?page=3)