# How far would you resist participation in a political gesture you don't agree with? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184 "2021-07-10T21:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/21 "2021-07-14T04:15:15Z")
In every country, including the US, I stand at attention when the national anthem is played, as a courtesy, and to acknowledge the legitimacy of their own patriotism. I suppose, in any of the OP scenarios, I would be guided by that principle, adjusted as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/22 "2021-07-14T07:22:21Z")
I don’t. Not my own and not anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/23 "2021-07-14T08:48:29Z")
In many, many countries in the world, you can and will be arrest for filing out of a movie theatre while the national anthem is playing at the end of the picture. Better to not be inflexible. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/24 "2021-07-14T10:23:48Z")
I fought a literal police state for political freedom, why on Earth would I listen to what a manager or a professor tells me to do? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/25 "2021-07-14T11:54:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I would feel extremely uncomfortable with being asked to engage in political activity by my employer even if it was a cause I believed in. Me too. In fact, I’d be furious if my employer - or anyone else I worked with - made any assumptions whatsoever about my opinions, even if these assumptions are 100% correct. I don’t like being pigeonholed. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/26 "2021-07-14T11:58:21Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In many, many countries in the world, you can and will be arrest for filing out of a movie theatre while the national anthem is playing at the end of the picture. Better to not be inflexible. I am flexible. Where I know my actions would cause offence and I have a choice, I’ll avoid those situations. I don’t stand to attention but nor would I seek to cause disruption for those who wish to do so. If I’m being _told_ to be courteous on pain of legal sanction and I couldn’t avoid the situation I’d probably do it but whatever gesture I end up doing has now not worthy of the name “courtesy”. I treat people with courtesy and respect as much as they do to me. To demand or expect that I stand to attention when an anthem is played? that isn’t respect. If someone started saying grace around a dinner table and expected me to do anything other than wait patiently? that’s not respect. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/27 "2021-07-14T12:36:13Z")
It seems like a very unlikely hypothetical. But in the unlikely event it came to be, I’d likely be sick that day. \< cough-cough \> ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/28 "2021-07-14T13:36:29Z")
Note that I’ve never heard of the scenario in the OP happening _anywhere_. What I have heard of is the company makes an announcement to the staff saying (for example), “To celebrate Pride Month, rainbow pins are available for employees to wear.” Or they have a training session to train people in how to be sensitive to people’s gender identity and offer free t-shirts to those who participate (which is what my employer did). They might encourage people to add their pronouns to their email signature, if they wish to do so (again something my employer did). Voluntary participation, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![mattgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mattgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattgg)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/29 "2021-07-14T13:37:16Z")
I won’t wear clothing that has on it the name or logo of the company which made it (with the exception of sneakers, where it’s very difficult to avoid). I’m not going to go along with any outward display of a political position, whether I agree with it or not. Besides, I live in the US and if we reach the point where an organization can compel my speech and the courts don’t stop it I’ve got much bigger problems than whatever punishment that organization can dole out (assuming that the organization is not a governmental entity with the authority to imprison me). ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/30 "2021-07-14T13:56:37Z")
The only place I’ve ever heard of playing their national anthem in theaters is India, and that’s only because it got a bit of news a few years ago because they stopped mandating the practice. Are there still _many_ countries where this is true? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/31 "2021-07-14T14:00:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that I’ve never heard of the scenario in the OP happening _anywhere_ . I’ve dated a few women who work at USAA, a Fortune 500 insurer who focuses on military members, and they acknowledge that when USAA does one of their ‘tribute to the troops’ events, it is VERY inadvisable to miss them. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/32 "2021-07-14T14:05:48Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > But they do kind of push United Way every year, which for various reasons I do not support. No punishment for not giving but it kind of sucks every year to explain to your manager why they will not get a 100% contribution from their group. Heh, yeah, United Way was the example I thought of as well. Had to push back on them the first few years I worked in my current job, but the people who canvass every year finally got the message to leave me out of it. As a general rule forced participation in such things is utterly meaningless at best, and actively bad at worst. Even if it’s a cause I agree with, how do you know that everyone wearing the “I Love X!” shirts actually do love X? It would kind of suck to run into the (for example) one MAGAHat who was only wearing a BLM T-shirt because he didn’t want to get fired. Being the one person who stands up for the right to sit down at least makes it clear that those who are participating might actually believe what they’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/33 "2021-07-14T14:10:01Z")
> [@ArtBeforeScience](#): > > I’m only vaguely familiar with the issues with UW - one of which is that most of the contributions go to administrative overhead. The other being this covert social pressure, as in they’re guilt-tripping you for bringing down both the group, and your manager. I also objected to the fact that they were giving other people at work information on whether or not I donated in previous years. That shit doesn’t fly. They way I was raised, giving to charity wasn’t something you bragged about publicly. Wanting recognition was far too self-aggrandizing. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/34 "2021-07-14T14:14:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that I’ve never heard of the scenario in the OP happening _anywhere_. Teams kneel during or before the anthem all the time. One player on the USWNT got in trouble for not wanting to have a rainbow LGBT patch on her uniform. A Doper here mentioned before that his employer was heavily pro-Trump and that there would be trouble for employees who didn’t toe the line. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/35 "2021-07-15T03:55:31Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > The only place I’ve ever heard of playing their national anthem in theaters is India, and that’s only because it got a bit of news a few years ago because they stopped mandating the practice. Are there still _many_ countries where this is true? Canada, for one, but I haven’t been to a movie in a long time. It used to be nearly universal in Asia and Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/36 "2021-07-15T04:04:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Suppose that, at your workplace, or university, you and all other employees/students are notified by your boss: _“In support of (or opposition to) a particular Political Cause XYZ, we are all going to wear sloganed T-shirts (or kneel before a game, or wear buttons/hats, or change profile pictures, etc.”_ > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that I’ve never heard of the scenario in the OP happening _anywhere_ . Does the Pledge of Allegiance count? I think it’s a pretty terrible idea to pledge allegiance to a flag. I think “liberty and justice for all” is at best aspirational, and I don’t think it’s actually an aspiration for a lot of my countryfolk. The “under God” part chaps my hide. And it’s a really, _really_ bad idea to ask children to repeat these words before they know what they mean or understand their option not to say them. But as part of my job, for years, I’ve been required to lead the kids in the pledge when it comes on over the intercom. It’s a state law, and while the law makes allowances for kids that don’t want to say it, it’s a lot less clear on whether state employees can opt out. So I’ve reluctantly complied with this bit of state indoctrination, assuming I can do more good if I bend than if I break. I teach kids what the words mean, and I teach them about their rights not to say the words. And if I happen to need to step into the hallway to check on something during the pledge, well, sometimes that’s unavoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/37 "2021-07-15T04:30:21Z")
Yeah, that’s a great example, I’d forgotten about that. Totally unnecessary, counterproductive, even, to make kids pledge like that. Something you would think would or should have been banned half a century ago. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/38 "2021-07-15T15:59:47Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In many, many countries in the world, you can and will be arrest for filing out of a movie theatre while the national anthem is playing at the end of the picture. > [@jtur88](#): > > Canada, for one, but I haven’t been to a movie in a long time. It used to be nearly universal in Asia and Africa. Cites, please, that people are getting arrested in specific countries, Canada included, for walking out of a movie while the anthem’s playing? Cites of the laws themselves, or of the news reports of the arrests, would do. Dates within the last twenty years, please. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/39 "2021-07-15T16:11:56Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Cites of the laws themselves, or of the news reports of the arrests, would do. Dates within the last twenty years, please. > **[Not just India, national anthems are a touchy subject in many other Asian...](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/not-just-india-national-anthems-are-a-touchy-subject-in-many-other-asian-countries-too-4916795/)** > > The controversial legal enforcement of National Anthem code of conduct is found in China, Japan, Thailand and more. ---
**Author:** ![Mavis\_Topholese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@Mavis\_Topholese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavis_Topholese)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184/40 "2021-07-15T17:16:21Z")
I’ve seen a lot of movies in Canada and the only time the national anthem has been played is a reel shown at the start of the program at the drive-in movies, and people are parking, getting concessions, and otherwise not paying a lot of attention. Never experienced it in a theater. Back in the 1990s in the US my manager at the print shop wanted me to print up some copies of the Ken Starr Report he’d managed to get ahold of. I said “I don’t want any part of this” and found something else to do. It wasn’t a job for a paying client so there really wasn’t anything he could do about it. On the other hand, I did get fired from that job. Hmmmmm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-far-would-you-resist-participation-in-a-political-gesture-you-dont-agree-with/946184.md?page=3)