# How Fascism Starts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211 "2006-03-06T02:18:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/41 "2006-03-06T14:19:08Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > Those in the know recall that a) the “invented the internet” shtick was a misquote and b) as Senator, Al Gore pushed for funding for the “Information Superhighway” as it was called back then. Gore was a saavy and publically spirited politician. And I was beginning to think only conservatives couldn’t take a joke. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/42 "2006-03-06T14:23:02Z")
**Pochacco** , perhaps you could let us know if either (a) the Marines petitioned for and were granted a waiver prior to appearing for the event, or (b) the Marines, once higher up were alerted, were disciplined for appearing at an political event in uniform. Or you could just assume the worst and start warning everyone of the upcoming military coup. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/43 "2006-03-06T14:44:16Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > One of those was actually done by one of his army of robotic clones. I thought he used those to help protect the spacetime continuum. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/44 "2006-03-06T14:47:17Z")
I should point out that historically, military forces were not always that ethusiastic about fascism. The German Wehrmacht obeyed Hitler - but many top leaders distrusted him, supported him only because they saw the alternative as Communist dictatorship instead, and tried to off him. The Japanese Army was behind fascism in Japan, but its Navy had deep misgivings about the entire war, and in fact refused to excercise its powers vis-a-vis the civilian government. Franco, as I understand it, had his own private army anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/45 "2006-03-06T15:27:29Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Fascism debate aside, I agree with the OP. This is clearly in violation of the directive. It’s no big deal. I suppose our other documents of law and directives are no big deal as well. Lets just break all the rules! :dubious: Did you read this whole thread? As many have pointed out, you cannot tell just by looking at this picture if it is “clearly” against the rules. And not one person has advovated breaking any rules, so I’m at a loss to what you are dubious about. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/46 "2006-03-06T16:10:38Z")
Actually, I think [this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usmediasecrets) is how Fascism starts. Should have probably started a new thread, but I’m not really sure what I want to say yet. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/47 "2006-03-06T16:13:53Z")
Sadly, if a shitstorm does rise out of this, it’s the 2 marines that will be in the middle of it, not any politicos. I think the Laramer County Republican party should be pitted here, not for facism, but instead for putting the marines in a position that will likely result in a repremand. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/48 "2006-03-06T16:32:38Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Sadly, if a shitstorm does rise out of this, it’s the 2 marines that will be in the middle of it, not any politicos. I think the Laramer County Republican party should be pitted here, not for facism, but instead for putting the marines in a position that will likely result in a repremand. Unless the PAO cleared it ahead of time, which in the case of an award could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/49 "2006-03-06T16:39:59Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Unless the PAO cleared it ahead of time, which in the case of an award could have happened. True, there’s just too little to go on here. And next time you quote me, could you fix my horrendous spelling errors please? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MrJackboots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MrJackboots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrJackboots)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/50 "2006-03-06T18:15:53Z")
I personally find it interesting that the picture in question seems to have gone down the Memory Hole. They used a very predictable naming scheme, so it’s easy to tell there are a couple missing in the other galleries, too, mostly in Gallery 2. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/51 "2006-03-06T18:48:07Z")
Well howdy, it sure has disappeared. If anyone wonders what we’re talking about, the pic is still at [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/52 "2006-03-06T19:28:58Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Well howdy, it sure has disappeared. Them Fascists sure are adept at covering their tracks! Be very afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/53 "2006-03-06T19:37:03Z")
Looks like fascism was cropping up back in 1971. [Pic.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vietnamwar.com/JohnKerry_TedKennedy.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.vietnamwar.com/JohnKerrySilverStar.htm&h=301&w=378&sz=59&tbnid=qDURLyQm3cFD_M:&tbnh=94&tbnw=119&hl=en&start=59&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djohn%2Bkerry%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2003-41,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/54 "2006-03-06T19:46:37Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Looks like fascism was cropping up back in 1971. > > [Pic.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vietnamwar.com/JohnKerry_TedKennedy.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.vietnamwar.com/JohnKerrySilverStar.htm&h=301&w=378&sz=59&tbnid=qDURLyQm3cFD_M:&tbnh=94&tbnw=119&hl=en&start=59&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djohn%2Bkerry%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2003-41,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN) It does not appear to be a uniform Kerry is wearing there, merely fatigues with his medals, just as he wore the next day while [testifying](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kerrytestimony.jpg) before the Senate. I see no signs of rank in either picture, or any official insignia. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/55 "2006-03-06T20:00:04Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Looks like fascism was cropping up back in 1971. > > [Pic.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vietnamwar.com/JohnKerry_TedKennedy.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.vietnamwar.com/JohnKerrySilverStar.htm&h=301&w=378&sz=59&tbnid=qDURLyQm3cFD_M:&tbnh=94&tbnw=119&hl=en&start=59&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djohn%2Bkerry%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2003-41,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN) Even if we assume that is a uniform, how is that meeting a “political event”? The ddriective are clearly aimed at raliles and conventions, not one-on-one meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/56 "2006-03-06T20:06:07Z")
Hmmmm…the McCarthy communist accusations of the 50s have come full circle maybe? “I have here a list of 234 known fascists…” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/57 "2006-03-06T20:18:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Even if we assume that is a uniform, how is that meeting a “political event”? The ddriective are clearly aimed at raliles and conventions, not one-on-one meetings. It wasn’t just a one-on-one meeting with Kennedy. Kerry was participating in a huge antiwar protest at the time. Not a big deal, mind. But it reminds us that this sort of thing goes back a long way. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/58 "2006-03-06T20:34:28Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > It wasn’t just a one-on-one meeting with Kennedy. Kerry was participating in a huge antiwar protest at the time. > > Not a big deal, mind. But it reminds us that this sort of thing goes back a long way. What sort of thing? Members of the military appearing in uniform at political events? Well, leaving aside the fact that if it was not a uniform it’s not comparable (since you seem to want to ignore that fact), at the time Kerry was in the Reserves. The directive does not appear to apply to the Reserves. Correct me if I’m wrong. (And now that I think of it, the Marines could have been Reservists. Hadn’t thought of that.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/59 "2006-03-06T20:44:10Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > It wasn’t just a one-on-one meeting with Kennedy. Kerry was participating in a huge antiwar protest at the time. > > Not a big deal, mind. But it reminds us that this sort of thing goes back a long way. Just out of curiosity, do the regs forbid participating in something like an anit-War rally? Seems like they are geared towards preventing uniformed military men to public align themselves with a political party. An anti-war rally needn’t be partisan, and often isn’t. At any rate, do you really call what he was earing a “uniform”? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211/60 "2006-03-06T21:02:55Z")
Navy Uniform Regulations, Chapter 1, Section 4, Paragraph 4: > [@](#): > > (a) Exercising the rights of freedom > of speech and assembly does not include the right to use > the inherent prestige and traditions represented by the > uniforms of the naval service to promote privately held > convictions on public issues. > (b) Members of the Navy and Marine > Corps, including retired members and members of reserve > components are prohibited from wearing uniforms of the > naval service while attending or participating in a demonstration, > assembly, or activity knowing that a purpose of > the demonstration, assembly, or activity supports personal > or partisan views on political, social, economic, or religious > issues, except as authorized in advance by competent > authority; or incident to attending or participating in a > bona fide religious service or observance. [Link.](http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/Unireg/chapter1.pdf) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fascism-starts/347211.md?page=4)