# How fast was JFK's car going when he was shot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 3, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032 "2016-02-03T05:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sara20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@sara20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sara20)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/1 "2016-02-03T05:39:21Z")
Does anyone know how fast was JFK’s car going when he was shot, and if it sped up or slowed down at all after the first shot, until the last shot? ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/2 "2016-02-03T05:46:20Z")
I don’t know how fast it was going but the driver confirmed that after the second shot he took his foot off the gas, thereby inadvertently giving Oswald an easier target for the head shot. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/3 "2016-02-03T05:49:38Z")
Probably about 5 mph. [http://www.chacha.com/question/how-fast-was-the-car-carrying-jfk-going-when-he-was-shot](http://www.chacha.com/question/how-fast-was-the-car-carrying-jfk-going-when-he-was-shot) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/4 "2016-02-03T06:07:18Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY) it’s hard to tell, but it looks a little faster - I’d guess about 8mph. A pretty good running speed. ---
**Author:** ![sara20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@sara20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sara20)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/5 "2016-02-03T07:29:04Z")
> [@Lorne\_Armstrong](#): > > I don’t know how fast it was going but the driver confirmed that after the second shot he took his foot off the gas, thereby inadvertently giving Oswald an easier target for the head shot. Do you have any source for this? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/6 "2016-02-03T10:20:10Z")
11 or 12 mph, according to Clint Hill. > [@](#): > > He (driver Bill Greer) began to accelerate slightly. And just as he began to get to the original speed of 11, 12 miles per hour, I heard a noise from my right rear — an explosive sound. I had been scanning to the left side of the streets; there were a few people in the grassy area. And as I heard that explosive noise, my scan took me across the presidential vehicle moving to my right. When I did so, I saw the president grab his throat, lurch to his left, and I knew that something had happened. I jumped off the follow up car and ran toward the presidential vehicle. During that run, apparently there was another shot, which I did not hear. Just before I reached the presidential vehicle, a third shot rang out. I heard it and I felt it because it hit the president in the head above the right ear to the rear portion of his head. > > Brain matter and blood spewed out of that wound and I was covered with it as was the car. Mrs. Kennedy at that time came out on the back of the trunk of the car attempting to retrieve something that had come off the president’s head, which was the right rear. She didn’t know I was there. I did the best I could to place her into the back seat, got her into the back seat. The president fell over into her lap. His head was exposed. I could see his eyes were fixed. The upper right portion of his head was split open. It looked like somebody had taken a spoon or something and removed brain matter and spread it all around the back of the car, along with blood, all over Mrs. Kennedy and everybody else. So I placed myself up as high as I could above them to prevent anybody from shooting any more into the car. The driver accelerated and we sped off. Clint Hill is the secret service agent that can be seen climbing onto the back of the President’s car after the shots are fired in the Zapruder film and other photos of the incident. > **[Reflections from the Secret Service agent who leaped onto JFK's car](https://theweek.com/articles/470298/reflections-from-secret-service-agent-who-leaped-onto-jfks-car)** > > "I think about it every day," says retired Secret Service agent Clint Hill. "It never goes away." Looking at the Zapruder film, it looks like the car does slow slightly, which would be consistent with the driver lifting his foot off of the gas momentarily. After the fatal head shot, the driver clearly stomps on the gas and the car accelerates as Hill climbs onto the back of it. I have seen conspiracy theory whack-jobs point to this as proof that the driver was in on the assassination conspiracy and slowed down intentionally to make sure that Oswald got a good shot, which is utter nonsense if you ask me. It’s more likely that he either didn’t do it intentionally (it’s only for a couple of seconds that the car slows) or he saw Hill climbing onto the car and waited for Hill to get on before punching it. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/7 "2016-02-03T11:33:48Z")
Not a reputable reference, I suppose, but **Was (not Was)** said it was [11 miles an hour](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWZ1n-XjP4) Not sure where they got their info - maybe Clint Hill, as above. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/8 "2016-02-03T15:37:58Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > it's hard to tell, but it looks a little faster - I'd guess about 8mph. A pretty good running speed. You can’t go by that. The **public** version of the Zapruder film is a hoax. If you want excruciatingly detailed proof, (and I do mean excruciating) read _The Great Zapruder Film Hoax_ by James Fetzer. It will teach you far more than you ever wanted to know about the technical aspects of film-making. > **[The Great Zapruder Film Hoax: Deceit and Deception in the Death of JFK: James H....](https://www.amazon.com/Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax-Deception/dp/081269547X)** > > The Great Zapruder Film Hoax: Deceit and Deception in the Death of JFK \[James H. Fetzer\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Great Zapruder Film Hoax: Deceit and Deception in the Death of JFK ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/9 "2016-02-03T15:51:48Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You can’t go by that. The **public** version of the Zapruder film is a hoax. > > If you want excruciatingly detailed proof, (and I do mean excruciating) read _The Great Zapruder Film Hoax_ by James Fetzer. It will teach you far more than you ever wanted to know about the technical aspects of film-making. > > [http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax/dp/081269547X](http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax/dp/081269547X) From Amazon: > [@](#): > > The evidence for alteration of the Zapruder movie takes many forms, including inconsistencies with eyewitness testimony, discrepancies with other films and photographs, impossible movements within the time-frame of the movie, contradictions between the movie and the physical layout of Dealey Plaza, and the multiple versions of the movie itself. The mind boggles. Keep in mind, we couldn’t do this today with computers - yet they had a fake film ready to go in a few days or weeks - complete with people dressed up as the exact same people as the original parade, a location that looks identical (but no evidence it was ever closed for on-location filming before or after) etc. etc. etc. Actually, I saw a documentary with Keanu Reeves that showed everything was imaginary, we are all just floating in pods hooked to machines with a plug in the back of our heads, and the world is just a dream. That would explain how a complete fake Zapruder film could be constructed in that way… 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/10 "2016-02-03T16:03:04Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > … > I have seen conspiracy theory whack-jobs point to this as proof that the driver was in on the assassination conspiracy and slowed down intentionally to make sure that Oswald got a good shot, which is utter nonsense if you ask me. It’s more likely that he either didn’t do it intentionally (it’s only for a couple of seconds that the car slows) or he saw Hill climbing onto the car and waited for Hill to get on before punching it. CTers never cease to amaze me. If you’re shooting a moving target the thing you want most is steady motion. If the car was constantly accelerating & decelerating, even between just 5 & 10mph that would make it much more difficult to hit a small target like a person. The necessary lead would be continuously changing unpredictably. \*If \*the driver was in on it (which only an insane person could actually believe) he’d be doing his utmost to drive at a constant speed in a straight line. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/11 "2016-02-03T16:03:37Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You can’t go by that. The **public** version of the Zapruder film is a hoax. > > If you want excruciatingly detailed proof, (and I do mean excruciating) read _The Great Zapruder Film Hoax_ by James Fetzer. It will teach you far more than you ever wanted to know about the technical aspects of film-making. > > [http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax/dp/081269547X](http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax/dp/081269547X) Fetzer-The same genius that wrote “Nobody Died at Sandy Hook”? Right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/12 "2016-02-03T16:05:09Z")
We need a sarcasm font more than ever. As for the head shot, the target wasn’t moving left/right, just down range. A couple MPH difference didn’t matter much at all, because the target was moving down range and in scope. AND… if it did… taking one’s foot off the ‘gas pedal’ doesn’t exactly scrub off any speed for a moment or two. . ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/13 "2016-02-03T16:06:41Z")
@ **Czarcasm** : Where do we find such men? 😕 :eek: ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/14 "2016-02-03T23:39:33Z")
To get back to the OP’s question, this is another chance to point people towards Luis Alvarez’s classic [“A physicist examines the Kennedy assassination film”](http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/pdf/HSCA_Vol1_0908_4_Alvarez.pdf). Section VI is devoted to the speed of the car, concluding that it dropped from about 12mph to 8mph at approximately frame 300 of the Zapruder film. ---
**Author:** ![sara20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@sara20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sara20)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/15 "2016-02-04T02:54:13Z")
Another thing I was thinking about is if lee harvey oswald was a double or triple agent, working for both the CIA and KGB and if his wife was a KGB agent. Why would the Soviet union let them both leave, especially his wife, and why would the US let him back in after he renounced his citizenship, and let his wife in who is not even a citizen? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/16 "2016-02-04T16:57:11Z")
The USSR _never wanted LHO to stay at all_. They knew right away he was a nut job with no worthwhile information. LHO attempted suicide when the USSR suggested he should leave. They backed off after that and grudgingly let him stay. But they barely provided for him. LHO had an immense ego and was ticked off by that. He grew tired of his crummy life in the USSR and decided to go back. While he announced his intention to give up his citizenship, he never did it formally. More important, since _he never became a Soviet citizen_, he couldn’t give up his US citizenship under the circumstances. Once he was married (with one kid who was born a dual citizen), if he moved his wife was expected to go with him. She was an illegitimately born woman of no consequence to the Soviets. The US _had_ to let him back in. It can’t prevent a US citizen from re-entering. Some people checked around at the time when LHO asked to get a passport and they couldn’t find any legal excuse not to give him one. Once he had a passport, he only needed to go thru Soviet red tape to return. No one in their right mind examining the records of LHO’s experience in the USSR would believe for one second he was working for the KGB. No intelligence agency anywhere would have anything to do with him. This was echoed later with the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City also told him to go away. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-fast-was-jfks-car-going-when-he-was-shot/745032/17 "2016-02-05T13:10:25Z")
Personally, [this is my favorite version of the events…](http://www.theonion.com/graphic/november-22-1963-10584)