Thanks, The Peyote Coyote, for clearing that up. It’s been a long time since I looked at it, and memory (mine, anyway) plays tricks.
Subconsciously, I must have wanted to give Burgess credit for cutting the chapter, which, IMHO, really isn’t an ‘organic’ part of the book and reads a bit as an artificial add-on, something to make us feel better about things.
I both agree and disagree with this statement. I agree that the plot was fairly close. However, reading mere words on a page had a muted emotional impact, especially because of the artificial language in the which the book is written. Seeing actual human beings doing those things on the screen was much more shocking and disturbing to this viewer.
Yeah, it’s not like that gawdawful Avengers movie. Those are two hours of my life I will never get back.
I think the book was more shocking, it has Alex inject heroin and molest two pre-teen girls. What was in the movie was much tamer.
UnuMondo
I never heard of that last chapter before, but I do think its a complete and utter cop-out.
I also don’t think the message of the film was so much that the government trying to fix Alex was worse than Alex’s immoral actions.
Rather, I think that the film said “some people are evil to their core and completely unredeemable” which I think can be true. That even when you dress them up and totally supress their evil intentions you’ve made “a clockwork orange”, a totally useless, fake, redundant thing. That the Alex character belonged out of society, either in prison for life or dead.
I think this message is much more realistic than the idea that “absolutely everyone is ultimately good inside”.
Given my sheer loathing for Kubrick as a director, I thought Clockwork was the ultimate example of why he was over-rated. Two hours (+/-) of over the top, unrealistic, hyper dramatized emoting to make points that could have been just as easily brought home by two lines in the mouth of a well-directed actor.
Clockwork is kind of like Marilyn Manson to me: It tries so hard to be shocking and jarring that it ends up being really just pathetic comedy.
After watching Clockwork Orange for the first time this year, I felt that it didn’t live up to the hype. Granted, it’s one of the most hyped movies ever.
I think part of the reason was that not once through the whole movie did I stop hating Alex for the evil he ddi in the first part of the movie. Even when he was going through the torture, I was kind of thinking in the back of my mind “well… maybe he shouldn’t have beaten the lady to death with the dick,then.”
I don’t know, maybe I’m just a sick individual.
I thing the magic of Clockwork Orange is that you’re not supposed to like anyone in the film. Not Alex, not his parole officer who slaps him on the nuts, not the governement that tries to condition him.
My 2 cents: I don’t feel that the author ever intended for anyone to sympathize with Alex. To appreciate the movie, you really have to divorce yourself from the typical Hollywood hero/villain formula.
I also think that’s why it was so controversial. It’s not just that there are graphic scenes of violence - there are plenty of movies with that; it’s that people expect some sort of acknowledgment of how horrible the stuff that happens is. We’re used to movies that tell us how to feel, with sad or scary music and a hero who is outraged and wants to do something about it. People see scenes of violence and rape juxtaposed with light-hearted classical music and show tunes, and they think “what the hell is this?”
Having seen ‘A Clockwork Orange’ for the very first time under the heavy influence of LSD, I firmly believe that the movie was designed for exactly that frame of mind. Having seen it since while sober, it is not nearly as enthralling, although I still like it plenty enough to own it on DVD
Under the effects of LSD, the movie seemed to be about 8 hours long. The scenes in the Korova Milkbar were particularly surreal. That first time, I found it difficult to determine if the visual effects I was seeing were really in the film or only the result of the LSD.
I don’t recommend the use of LSD, but if you’re gonna do it anyway and you want to watch something that’s gonna pull you in, go for ‘A Clockwork Orange.’
sorry.
i still can’t watch “singing in the rain” because of “a clockwork orange”.
really.
disturbing.
scene.
and i am NOT easily disturbed.
The whole point was that although Alex was bad, the society’s solution, removing his free-will was even worse.
I liked the last chapter - it just seemed to complete the novel for me. I never really thought of it as a ‘happy ending,’ but i suppose it is in a way.
I’m not easily disturbed either. I think the only movie that really ooked me out that way was Tetsuo’s Iron Man.
But it’s not just the events that take place in a movie that make it scary or disturbing - it’s how graphically they’re portrayed. I think Natural Born Killers was more graphic (slightly) but consider that A Clockwork Orange was made 23 years earlier.
In both of those movies the protagonists have a psychopathic gleeful attitude towards the violence, which makes it a little creepier.
Yes. Very disturbing movie… wouldn’t mind viewing it again, since you always see something you missed the first time.
I think the message of the movie was intriguing— regarding rehabilitation/ conditioning of a deranged man…and how the Kubrick portrayed Alex— as if we were supposed to feel sorry for him… for being a criminal (kinda like what our media does today)…
Very strange movie. But I kinda liked it…in a weird way.
A little trivia about Clockwork Orange. There was a synth-pop-funk band in the 80’s called Heaven 17 that produced some minor hits like Let me go and We don’t need this fascist groove thang. IIRC, the name of that band is taken from that movie. In the scene at the “milk plus” bar, the name appears on…something. I don’t remember exactly.
Perhaps you should read it first?
**
That’s got nothing to do with the actual message of either the book or the film. Alex’s growing up isn’t any sort of redemption (and he never pays for what he’s done) – it’s just that he’s tired of being a kid. He’s not good now any more than he was good then, he just is. The government’s torture of him was evil because it attempted to deprive him of free will; it was useless because it couldn’t possibly work. What the last chapter of the book shows, is that it was also completely gratuitous, because he’d get there himself anyway, so now the pain the state inflicted becomes even worse, because it has no utility at all. We may argue about how much pain is acceptable to inflict in the pursuit of nobler ends, but no reasonable person can say completely gratuitous torture is valid.
–Cliffy
P.S. I was named after Little Alex.
The graphic rape scene got to me more than anything else. I used to work at a very hip video store, lots of shee-shee artsy films. One of my coworkers once put in Orange on the in-store monitor. I was horrified, and asked him to take it out. I love Kubrik, but it’s not the type of movie people really want to walk into a video store to.
Suggested manouevre: Then skip over the friggin thread title. It may help you in the long run.
The reason I asked whether it was “so freaky” is b/c growing older, I have a particular sensitivity to large sums of graphic violence. I don’t really like the idea of an old woman being bludgeoned to death, and I wanted to see what other people think.
I haven’t watched it, always wanted to but never got round to it. Most friends said it was just too wierd. Usually they’ll never admit to being scared, and since no-one on the SDMB minds what the hell anyone else thinks, it’s easier just to ask you guys.
See I didn’t find NBK that scary, but it is kinda disturbing. I think I would find it more so now than before. The most disturbing was perhaps TCM (Texas Chainsaw M), just for it’s rawness.
I’m not sure whether I want to agree or disagree 
, but I think that it’s important to note that Kubrik also used tools to distance the viewer from the action, with the use of relatively absurd music and fastforwarding (IIRC, it’s been at least ten years since I’ve seen it) during the scene with the girls, for example.
Like the book, you’re never supposed to be totally engrossed in the movie. He wants you to keep it at arms length.
Xavier: Do yourself a favour and see the movie. You may hate it, you may be absolutely disgusted by it, or you may love it, but it’s an important piece of 20th century culture, and you owe it to yourself to see it. I’d hate to die having never experienced something because I thought it might be a little too intense.