I do believe the gallows was meant to be symbolic (not that, again, it makes the fact that a freakin’ gallows was constructed next to the Capitol building any less insane).
But, if you want to argue pure hypotheticals, your own twitter post shows the thing is pretty solidly constructed. Look at the workmanship in that base.
The framing that the noose hangs from is made of 4x4s, which would hold a lot of weight if properly supported. It’s not, but it wouldn’t take too much additional work to add some support bracketing. It looks too short to easily hang someone, but there might be a cutaway in the platform- you can’t tell from the angle.
Again, a couple modifications and some added support bracketing, maybe an extra hour’s work, and that thing goes from symbolic to fully functioning easily.
A noose only requires a drop if you’re actually trying to break someone’s neck. A noose is also quite effective at strangling someone using their own weight. It’s doubtful most people who were hanged during a lynching were fortunate enough to break their necks instead of slowly strangling to death. But, as you point out, the noose was attached using a nail and it’s unlikely it would have supported the weight of someone even for strangulation.
Edit: And once again, this is what I get for not reading the thread before replying.
The OP topic is “how functional (or symbolic) was the noose”? And I was responding to what I feel like was a rather blithe response from @Lance_Turbo: “that thing wouldn’t support more than 20 pounds…A stiff breeze could knock it over.” Which, again, sounds to me like arguing 'why get so worked up over that burning cross on your lawn? That thing’s not sturdy enough to crucify a child".
Looking at it, I think the platform was carefully constructed, but the rope was shoddy. Probably not made by the same person.
I think that the platform itself wasn’t constructed as a gallows. I’m guessing it was for a cameraman to stand on, to get a good view. Something of that sort. A reasonably legitimate purpose. Then someone tied a rope to it.
It’s far too small to be used as a gallows. No matter how many modifications you made, it couldn’t be turned into a working gallows.
It’s the wrong shape to be even used as a miniature model of a gallows. Basically, the crossbeam goes over a solid platform. A gallows requires a crossbeam to go over empty air. Either the platform would need a trapdoor to fall away under the victim’s feet. Or the crossbeam would need to be a few feet forward of the platform, and the victim can be shoved forward off the end. Or the crossbeam would have to be high enough to hoist the victim up.
The OP asks if the gallows was functional and if it was a threat to Mike Pence. The answer to that is that it wasn’t functional and probably was never intended to be a threat against Mike Pence.
The gallows is unquestionably a terroristic threat against Democratic members of congress and the person who erected it is a total scumbag.
People have hung themselves on doorknobs. As long as you can find a configuration where you end up supporting most of the body weight on the neck, you can hang someone in lots of places that are kind of small.
Looking at that platform, just kick their feet off the edge, and there’d be enough room for them to hang quite well. Not as easy as a proper gallows, but not impossible either.
This would only work if you had plenty of people to hold the whole thing together. Probably be easier to just strangle him with the rope or beat him to death with one of the 4x4’s that you could easily pull free from the poorly assembled mess.
Yes, the workmanship is definitely the problem here. I was just talking about the size issue. A small portable gallows could be functional, if you had a better carpenter.
Given the general competence level of the Trumpoltroons, it’s quite possible that it was intended to be functional but the actual hardware was useless for anything but symbolism.
You are correct of course, but I also want to reply to you to have a chance to correct myself. I have never seen any images of the thing that included both the superstructure and the deck. It is far more substantial than it looked in the views I had previously seen and could be used effectively if used under the right circumstances.
I was wrong – it did have a deck material. The long shot video of the guy standing on it then lifting the noose rope to frame the building made it look much more fragile. It does however remain less than ideally stable.
I am done debating if it was a good and moral thing to erect it or not – under any circumstance it is batshit crazy and evil, no debate. The rest of this post is just me musing about what options a reluctant elected official might have if led to this abomination with their hands bound behind them.
First, while the thing seems to have countersunk bolts holding it together – there is no bracketing hardware in evidence anywhere (which could be important in many ways). the steps look insufficient to hold multiple persons – so if a person on each side was dragging you up there, jumping up and down may cause the specific tread to break or tear loose making getting you up onto the platform a greater challenge.
Second, there is a deck (which I was wrong about before) and depending upon how well attached it might be – it can provide what is called diaphragm strength. That would be the only lateral bracing anywhere on the structure. There are braces on both sides in a front to back direction (tension for forward motion- compression for backward motion), in addition the stair structure itself would make it almost impossible to collapse the thing in a backward motion (and you would have to overcome sheer strength to rack it forward – very unlikely).
Third, there are no images of the bottom of the thing, but if it is just sitting on the ground without any stakes holding contact points firm – the easiest way to disable the contraption would be to push it over sideways. That would be a very heavy lift for a bound and guided “prisoner” to accomplish without help, but two determined and unbound observers could easily push it over on its side.
Fourth, it is easy to see that each connection is accomplished by use of a single bolt. That can be a fatal flaw because no matter how tight the bolts may seem-- it would be easy to get them to pivot, and we already established that there is little lateral strength. A person with good sturdy shoes on could easily throw their full weight one way or the other - then stop themselves and maintain balance. Doing that a few times is quite likely to make the thing collapse sideways. A single hammer blow can create a thousand pounds of force and it weighs about 28-32 ozs. A two-hundred pound body can easily generate enough lateral force to overcome the very limited moment strength inherent in the the structure. It might take two or three tries, but in fewer than five for sure the deck will be headed to the ground and then the thing is a scrap pile.
Fifth, the crossbar atop the superstructure would provide a little extra lateral strength, but it seems to be only toe-nailed in. There is no evidence of any bracketing or hardware there. The small moment frame it provides would not help much for step four above – and might also provide an additional weakness. Even if a live body was placed in the noose (and the noose was secured enough to hold the weight). Even while strangling – if one could swing their body side to side, it seems likely it could knock the crosspiece loose from the uprights. That would be in addition to possibly causing the entire structure to collapse sideways from the previously mentioned lack of lateral bracing.
A sixth potential option to avoid being hanged by an angry mob (why yes, I was bullied as a child- why do you ask??) might be the following.
When we watch westerns, there is a huge deck with a trap door for most hanging scenes. In this case there is only a four foot by four foot platform (that might be easily tipped over). But the business end of the gallows is all at one end of the entire structure. If the mob manages to get you up the stairs and onto the platform. And if you are unable to either tip the structure over OR shake it to bits, and they finally take you forward to put your head through the noose - - - - - - - you might be able to jump forward off the platform when they absentmindedly turn you loose to get the noose around your neck. The fall would be manageable (especially compared to strangling to death), and while you would be jumping back into the crowd which is actively trying to hang you – it might do more than delay the eventual outcome. If you can do that much on your own – perhaps General Milley would have had seal team six there by then to liberate you from the very fine people who are just doing touristy things at the Capitol that day.
In any case, I was wrong-- it could effectively be used to hang someone. It would take a determined crowd to do it, but it could be used as a gallows to a very large degree. I still believe it was meant to be symbolic, but a passive person who only cared about “how a man falls down” could be genuinely hanged to death on this structure pictured above. My apologies for my dismissive attitude and wrong information above.
True. For someone not resisting, someone actively cooperating (which I have a hard time imagining), it could be fully functional as is.
This is completely accurate. I could easily shake the thing to bits while standing on the platform - even with my hands tied behind my back.
But if dozens were holding it upright, and others were holding the hanging body from swinging. And still others were holding the cross piece from dislodging. It could work as it is shown. But a reluctant participate might be able to make the mob resort to other methods.
They could have done a better job if their toolbox had not sunk with their boat at the last Trump boat rally.
Just a typical, modern day discussion of Republican politics.
The Rapture, Gallows, Assault Rifles, Abortion, you know-- all the things the founding fathers spent their time contemplating. (And some of those guys shot each other in duels!)
