In Japan he’s like all of the Beatles rolled into one and he enjoys a large following in the far-east in general too.
I agree with almost everything Lochdale said in his post, in particular, this section quoted above. I do think, however, that Beckham is probably now a better player than Keane but that Keane’s legacy as a player will be greater than Beckham’s. I would also rate Rio Ferdinand as a better and more important player than Beckham in Man Utd’s current line up.
The interesting question at Real Madrid this season will be how the overstacked right wing position will now pan out with Figo, Beckham and McManaman all vying for the same position. I can’t see McManaman surviving beyond next season at the Bernabeu. I also can’t see Beckham beating Figo out for his place regularly and especially in important games since there isn’t anything Beckham provides that Figo can’t (granted, Beckham does cross the ball and hit long shots and free kicks better but Figo is no slouch at any of these things) and Figo provides a creativity, skill on the ball and goal scoring ability that Beckham doesn’t have.
Wow! Thanks for the input everyone!
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Is he as good as Pele?
Well, Pelé is nearly 63 so he probably is now, but at his peak Pelé was a better player with a wider range of skills and much greater impact during his career.
Ouch, man.
Asking about Pele is pretty misleading. Pele was the best player in the world at the time when he played; were he around now, it’d probably be a different matter. In fact, off the top of my head, I’d say that Zinedine Zidane is a better all-around player than Pele, and Ronaldo and Gonzales Raul are better strikers than Pele (which is his best-known position).
As for Beckham: as pretty much everyone has said, he’s the best crosser of the ball in football, the best free kick taker (if you’re biased, then at least top-3), and an excellent passer in general. He lacks pace, handling skills, and is a mediocre defender.
He does possess good leadership skills–especially for England–and can dominate a game on occasion. (This usually only when given free rein to roam, which happened rarely at United.)
His move to Real, and the reason he’s in the news so much now, has more to do with his marketability and his position as England’s Golden Boy (actually, Golden Balls). He’s the English captain, and their most glamorous player, so it’s a big story.
However, the best part of all this is the lineup that Real Madrid can now field. If you asked football fans to list the top 20 players in the world, a few people would make repeated appearances on the list. Those people? Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Gonzales Raul, David Beckham. All play for Real.
I would say off the top of my head that very few people would agree with you.
Pele was a once in a lifetime player. Ronaldo, Zidane and Raul would have trouble claiming to be the best of this generation and whilst I agree that because of tactics, modern training techniques and professionalism, football is played a higher standard than ever before, I could not sincerely say that if the same facilities and privileges were made available to Pele, Di Stefano, Best, etc that they would not have been the same superstars today that they were in their day.
There was a documentary about Pele on television last night. The general concensus amongst international players that had played with and against him was that he was the most complete player of all time. One of the people interviewed said that if he were afforded the degree of protection that players receive now he would have scored 2,500 - 3,000 goals in his career. They showed footage of Brazil’s loss to Portugal and it was hard to credit that there was a referee on the pitch. Pele was just kicked out of the game. I think it was Jackie Charlton who said that today half the Portuguese team would be sent off. Several former players said that the cynical foulling Pele was subject to was simply because it was impossible to stop him by playing football. In the Brazilian team Pele was considered to be the best player in every position other than in goal.
Having had this little taste of his skills I am going looking for a long video or DVD of him in action.
Yes, I saw that documentary as well.
It has to be said, in the interests of fairness, earlier this year Australia beat England 3-1 I think it was… and while it’s true that England played with one hand behind their back due to the Premier League’s insistance that the stars of the game only played for one half for England (which I don’t believe was good for the game AT ALL) it also has to be said that Australia’s defenders were quite capable of nullifying Beckham out of the game to a surprising degree with hindsight.
Partially this was because many of the Australia players were Premier Leaguers themselves, and knew David’s game, but also it was good coaching. Australia stacked some very, very fast defenders on their left wing and it truly snuffed David out of the game. In this context, Beckham’s lack of versatility became apparent for mine. His inability to fall back onto a Plan B manifested itself and England was rather hamstrung while he was on the park as a result.
But he’s undeniably a good looking bloke. I’d describe him as suffering somewhat from a male version of Britney Spears syndrome - insofar as he’s simply reached the state of being famous now for being famous. In pure talent terms, he’s stratospherically more talented than Britney Spears obviously - and few sides woud go backwards with his presence - but the Australia-England game showed conclusively that he can be neutralised and in doing so, he no longer presents a major threat to an opposing side.
But at Real Madrid, the challenge for opposing sides will be the effort required to neutralise him - doing such a thing will open the game up for the mega talents to run havoc.
As for Monsieur Pele? Ahhh yeah… students of history will agree that Pele’s the man…
A total of 12 World Cup goals.
Age 17 - 1958 - World Cup Final and winner in Sweden.
Age 21 - 1962 - World Cup Final and winner.
Age 30 - 1970 - World Cup Final and winner.
Most importantly, Pele could play the ball and not lose it - for 20 seconds at a time. This allowed his vision to either attack or setup other players. His ability to dribble and keep the ball under all manner of onslaught remains unrivalled in history for mine. And he could do it anywhere on the park - in the middle, either wing, up front, you name it - that guy was pure bliss to watch. The savagery which he was subjected to at times on the international stage was, with hindsight, a true blight on the history of football.
You’ll find it’s difficult to compare players from the 60’s and 70’s nowdays as the players these days are so much fitter. Watching ‘that’ goal scored by Brazil in the 1970 cup final against Italy, it doesn’t really look that good anymore.
Well, you know, it’s a bit like comparing Rod Laver to Andre Agassi in that respect, isn’t it? A certain amount of time shifting has to be applied for the analogy to work well.
Nonetheless, even the most biased lover of the modern game would have to concede that Pele’s ability to control the ball in the opposition’s half - regardless of modern fitness standards - remains an awesome thing to see - because the obvious talent is so plainly apparent.
Yes, Pele’s skills approach the skills I display in the Reading 5-a-side league (muffled laughter), but I still prefer watching Zinedane Zidane and I also feel that George Best and Maradona and even Zidane have the edge on him for on-the-ball skills.
I started this thread in IMHO, as I was wondering who people thought was the best player of all-time.
Pele was great. Almost as good as Cruyff.
Beckham’s primary talents are his free kicks and his long passing (including, but not limited to, crossing). Those posters who compare him to Zidane or Ronaldo or even Figo are missing the point. His talents are more comparable to those of his new teammate Roberto Carlos. Although Carlos likes to dribble more than Beckham does, and likes to drive his crosses low and hard (Beckham bends them in the air) the two play much the same role – Carlos on the left wing and Beckham on the right.
Those in this thread who complained that Beckham lacks pace are simply wrong. He doesn’t run with the ball much – but he is very fast off the ball.
Real Madrid likes to play a short passing game which may limit Beckham’s involvement.
Best player of all time – Maradonna (since I’ve been watching anyway).
Or it could be that Bend it Like Roberto Carlos doesn’t exactly trip off the tongue…
That film would have to have been made in Brazil or Spain, ricepad, since teenage Sikh girls in the UK are less likely to see Roberto Carlos as an inspiration than they would David Beckham.