# How good is radical skepticism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132 "2017-03-14T03:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/1 "2017-03-14T03:11:27Z")
Essentially the claim that nothing can be known and that our senses lie all the time, that reason tends to favor our desires. Some people claim that and say they maintain a matter of suspending judgment on just about everything. > **[Pyrrhonism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhonism)** > > Pyrrhonism is an Ancient Greek school of philosophical skepticism which rejects dogma and advocates the suspension of judgement over the truth of all beliefs. It was founded by Aenesidemus in the first century BCE, and said to have been inspired by the teachings of Pyrrho and Timon of Phlius in the fourth century BCE. Pyrrhonism is best known today through the surviving works of Sextus Empiricus, writing in the late second century or early third century CE. The publication of Sextus' works Pyrrh... They call it Pyrrhonism and try to apply that non judging attitude to all of life. It claims that much of strife is based on human belief and opinions. That when we value what is good we suffer if we don’t have it and struggle to hold it when we do, I’m guessing valuing something as bad works the same way. So by maintaining an attitude of permanent indecision you “free your mind” from worry and find tranquility. Seems somewhat like Buddhism and that religion is pretty large. But I have to wonder how sound that is and whether or not it is practical? It has some points to it though, our senses are easily fooled so why believe them? Reason tends to be influenced by our desires and emotions. Can what we get from such things really be called knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/2 "2017-03-14T03:14:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Essentially the claim that nothing can be known and that our senses lie all the time, that reason tends to favor our desires. Some people claim that and say they maintain a matter of suspending judgment on just about everything. > > [Pyrrhonism - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhonism) > > They call it Pyrrhonism and try to apply that non judging attitude to all of life. It claims that much of strife is based on human belief and opinions. That when we value what is good we suffer if we don’t have it and struggle to hold it when we do, I’m guessing valuing something as bad works the same way. So by maintaining an attitude of permanent indecision you “free your mind” from worry and find tranquility. Seems somewhat like Buddhism and that religion is pretty large. But I have to wonder how sound that is and whether or not it is practical? It has some points to it though, our senses are easily fooled so why believe them? Reason tends to be influenced by our desires and emotions. Can what we get from such things really be called knowledge? I’m skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![sear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sear)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/3 "2017-03-14T03:50:33Z")
A #2 Ditto. On the margins there’s room for quibble. What you see as maroon might to another person look red. I wouldn’t get to worked up about slight shade variation in color. Peril / danger avoidance requires rational awareness. - Don’t walk off a precipice. - Don’t slice your own jugular vein open with a chef’s knife. - Don’t sleep on roadways. - Don’t drink poison. - etc. > [@](#): > > Reload this Page How good is radical skepticism? Good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/4 "2017-03-14T04:03:30Z")
Scientific instruments allow us to take measurements of the physical environment with some confidence and repeatability. From these data we can employ reasons to reach conclusions, some of which can appear so clear that we may call them ~knowledge. But these are not always the most applicable things to know, and we often find ourselves forced to make decisions in the absence of certainty. I think moral/spiritual values are better guides in these situations than gut feelings. Radical skepticism? Well, not-judging is a spiritual value, so… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/5 "2017-03-14T04:23:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It has some points to it though, our senses are easily fooled so why believe them? Reason tends to be influenced by our desires and emotions. Can what we get from such things really be called knowledge? My inclination is to invite anyone who seriously believes such a philosophy to go be paralyzed and helpless in their beds somewhere and keep out of the way of those of us who are working to keep society functioning with confidence that that ground has _not_ magically turned into lava. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/6 "2017-03-14T05:14:00Z")
So judging from past experience, this thread will continue for several pages, during which you’ll deny anything resembling reality and reason, ultimately resolving absolutely nothing. Or is “past experience” one of the things you’re skeptical of? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/7 "2017-03-14T05:21:35Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So judging from past experience, this thread will continue for several pages, during which you’ll deny anything resembling reality and reason, ultimately resolving absolutely nothing. Or is “past experience” one of the things you’re skeptical of? Not saying I will deny it, but I find it hard to argue with the general premise behind it (just take a quick look at the link). I mean valuing something as good does cause you to suffer while you seek it and when you get it you worry about losing it. Then again, holding such a position doesn’t seem to be much different then death. Some say it’s a cure for the belief obsessed world we find ourselves in now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/8 "2017-03-14T05:41:01Z")
This subject has been debated for thousands of years, in two related philosophical fields, ontology and epistemology. The language can and does get highly specialized and technical. But there are simple ways to show the efficacy of the scientific method. Witness the wide variety of technological developments based upon it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/9 "2017-03-14T05:45:20Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I mean valuing something as good does cause you to suffer while you seek it and when you get it you worry about losing it. So be selective and only value as “good” that which you need to survive. You could set yourself up in a [tiny house](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_house_movement) and eschew the pointless accumulation that typically clutters post-industrial existence. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/10 "2017-03-14T06:06:08Z")
Pyrrhonism doesn’t sound like a belief system I would choose to subscribe to. Seriously, everybody benefits from a measure of self-reflection and self-doubt. You need to check your assumptions and see if they match what’s around you. But too much self-reflection and self-doubt is just paralysis. Sometimes you should just make a move. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/11 "2017-03-14T07:22:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So be selective and only value as “good” that which you need to survive. You could set yourself up in a [tiny house](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_house_movement) and eschew the pointless accumulation that typically clutters post-industrial existence. That’s not exactly what I’m getting at. I mean that they say that valuing something as good does that. But for them to strive to follow that school of thought that would have to value it as good. It’s just that the more I read about it the more it is rife with contradictions. Or some would joke "pyrronists believe in nothing except pyrronhism. ---
**Author:** ![sear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sear)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/12 "2017-03-14T11:24:18Z")
> [@](#): > > “Scientific instruments allow us to take measurements of the physical environment with some confidence and repeatability.” TC #4 Math is the language of science, and repeatability, duplication, verification are the methodology. But there’s ambiguity even there. Even checking a temperature with 3 digit precision may not provide an accurate or useful indication. Instead, if the system is working properly, the digital read-out is reporting on the conditions at the thermocouple. That may seem like technical hair-splitting. But NASA lost shuttle & crew incident to this. The Earth-based flight control / mission control had the telemetry that all kind of sensors were firing in one wing of the shuttle, and informed the shuttle crew. But once mission control figured out what was going on, there was nobody left up there to report it to. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/13 "2017-03-14T12:07:19Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m skeptical. A#2 Wins thread (if, indeed, there is a thread to win) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/14 "2017-03-14T14:01:47Z")
Now that the topic has been brought up, I can’t resist one post comparing it to Trumpism. How does that work? -Whether they admit being unable to know anything, Trumpists are unable to use facts and reasons to arrive at logical conclusions. -Instead of falling back to a position of non-judgement, they base decisions on gut-feeling reactions to their deepest prejudices about Mexicans, black people, Muslims, women, and so on. Isn’t that interesting? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/15 "2017-03-14T14:33:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I mean valuing something as good does cause you to suffer while you seek it and when you get it you worry about losing it. So? Sounds to me like you’re valuing suffering and worry as bad. How do you know they are? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/16 "2017-03-14T14:58:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A#2 Please don’t encourage him (sear, not Ambivalid) ---
**Author:** ![sear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sear)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/17 "2017-03-14T15:03:37Z")
Tm #16 If you or anyone else would prefer I not post here, all you need do is post that fact publicly. A PM won’t suffice, as I wouldn’t want the appearance that I turned my back on this cyber-community without cause. ANYone here has the veto. Your call. Thanks Happy Pi Day (3/14) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/18 "2017-03-14T15:44:10Z")
s #17 If you or anyone else would prefer I not post here, all you need do is post that fact publicly. Check the classifieds in tomorrows Chicago Tribune. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/19 "2017-03-14T16:23:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Or some would joke "pyrronists believe in nothing except pyrronhism. I’m not sure that _is_ a joke - it seems like a fair description. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132/20 "2017-03-14T18:00:47Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > So? Sounds to me like you’re valuing suffering and worry as bad. How do you know they are? That’s kind of what puzzles me about it. How can they maintain non judgement while seeking to avoid suffering (which is a value judgment) through their school? Of course they use the method non judgment for things that are “non-evident” so it can be said that suffering is evidently a bad thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-is-radical-skepticism/782132.md?page=2)