# How good of a shot was Lee Harvey Oswald? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094 "2014-09-10T17:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/21 "2014-09-10T21:08:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. People don’t realize how easy a shot this would be. Shooting a scoped rifle from a benched position is very easy. Literally the first time I ever shot a rifle I was hitting the x-ring at a hundred yards. Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/22 "2014-09-10T21:17:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? See any of the prior threads on this topic. It was a sitting duck shot. The limo was moving away from the shooter and down a slight incline, which tended to keep the target steady (albeit shrinking slightly) over the course of the shots. Envision a pumpkin on a clothesline, moving away from you. If it’s 75 yards away at your second shot and 90 yards away at the third shot, you’re hardly going to move the rifle in between. And if you have any decent skill with the gun, you’re going to hit it both times, 6 or 7 times out of 10. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/23 "2014-09-10T21:21:31Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? Question was inspired by _Full Metal Jacket_. In it the Drill Sergeant says _‘‘He [Oswald] was two hundred and fifty feet away and shooting at a moving target. Oswald got off three rounds with an old Italian bolt action rifle in only six seconds and scored two hits, including a head shot.’’_ Thanks for the replies, I’ve never even shot a rifle so I’ve no frame of reference for how tricky the shots would be. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/24 "2014-09-10T21:27:14Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Thanks for the replies, I’ve never even shot a rifle so I’ve no frame of reference for how tricky the shots would be. Most CTs derive their patina of believability by insisting that the shot was impossible (by timing or aim), the rifle was junk, Oswald was a lousy or unpracticed shooter, etc. Strip away those utterly false suppositions and there’s really no mystery or luck involved. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/25 "2014-09-10T21:29:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? Obviously harder, but the Presidential caravan was moving slowly as he waved to the crowd and he was moving almost directly away from the line that Oswald had as he was aiming at him so it was still mostly a straight shot. Edited to add: I didn’t refresh before replying and see others got some replies in first ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/26 "2014-09-10T21:32:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No bullets changed direction in the killing of this President. Well they did change direction after passing through Kennedy, the back of the front seat, and Connally. But not before they hit Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/27 "2014-09-10T21:34:22Z")
Where’d the third shot go? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/28 "2014-09-10T21:35:34Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? The limo was moving so slow that it was barely a factor. The street slopes downward making the adjustment for LHO even less. If you are hunting dove, for instance, you will have to lead with your shot, IOW shoot at the place the dove will be when the shot arrives. LHO would not have to do this, the limo was moving slowly enough and was close enough that the movement relative to LHO would be within the shot grouping of the rifle or thereabouts. I know I can do this with iron sights and most trained shooters can as well, I think I could pull it off with my pistol, it would be a close run thing but possible. **CurtC** , that’s what I get for relying on memory instead of cites, thank you. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/29 "2014-09-10T21:51:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Well they did change direction after passing through Kennedy, the back of the front seat, and Connally. But not before they hit Kennedy. This is a very common misconception. Governor Connally was twisted around in his rather awkwardly placed jump seat, the bullet traveled in an almost straight path. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/30 "2014-09-10T21:51:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Well they did change direction after passing through Kennedy, the back of the front seat, and Connally. But not before they hit Kennedy. Very little. The question as posed usually means rejection of the single-bullet theory, which is absurd if you seat JFK and Connally in a straight line and facing forward, instead of offset by several inches and slightly turned, as they were. > [@chacoguy](#): > > Where’d the third shot go? The first shot missed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/31 "2014-09-10T21:58:02Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Very little. The question as posed usually means rejection of the single-bullet theory, which is absurd if you seat JFK and Connally in a straight line and facing forward, instead of offset by several inches and slightly turned, as they were. I understand. I don’t believe in magic bullets. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/32 "2014-09-10T21:58:49Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The first shot missed. Sorry, I meant the first shot. How was it possible that the second two shots were so closely spaced, but he missed the entire car altogether with what should have been the easiest? It was the shortest shot and he had the most time to prepare? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/33 "2014-09-10T22:12:27Z")
There are 4 levels of qualification for riflery in the US armed forces. From lowest to highest, they are 1) unqualified, B) marksman, III) sharpshooter, and 4th) expert. I don’t know, but I somehow get the idea that the Marines will hold you back in boot camp until a recruit qualifies as at least a marksman. At the time, LHO was known as being a Marine sharpshooter, which isn’t bad, but isn’t remarkable either. Presuming he put a box or two of rounds through his carcano and had dialed in the scope, firing 3 shots and hitting his target with 2 of them at that range in that amount of time isn’t all that spectacular of a demonstration of his marksmanship, but does suggest he did go through some training. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/34 "2014-09-10T22:19:44Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > Sorry, I meant the first shot. How was it possible that the second two shots were so closely spaced, but he missed the entire car altogether with what should have been the easiest? It was the shortest shot and he had the most time to prepare? The assumption is jitters. Also, there would have been far more lateral movement in those seconds. After that, it was moderate skill, adrenaline and routine. > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > There are 4 levels of qualification for riflery in the US armed forces. From lowest to highest, they are 1) unqualified, B) marksman, III) sharpshooter, and 4th) expert. Yes, and there are two levels of winning an Oscar: winning it, and being one of the losers. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Presuming he put a box or two of rounds through his carcano and had dialed in the scope, firing 3 shots and hitting his target with 2 of them at that range in that amount of time isn’t all that spectacular of a demonstration of his marksmanship, but does suggest he did go through some training. His Marine training is a matter of record, and Marina testified that he was incessantly dry-firing the rifle. I can’t remember right off hand, but he put some number of round through it at a range while getting familiar with it and dialing in the scope. Probably hundreds, possibly thousands. Can’t find the relevant passage here right now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/35 "2014-09-10T23:56:58Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > Sorry, I meant the first shot. How was it possible that the second two shots were so closely spaced, but he missed the entire car altogether with what should have been the easiest? It was the shortest shot and he had the most time to prepare? I think there was a tree in his way, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/36 "2014-09-11T00:09:01Z")
The normal Army qualification course has targets from 50 to 300 meters. Anything under 200 is an easy shot with just iron sights and my aging eyes. I seem to recall that on _Bullshit_ Teller was able to make the shots without any training at all. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/37 "2014-09-11T00:37:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No bullets changed direction in the killing of this President. Sure it did. But parabolically! If it didn’t do that, it really would have been magic! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/38 "2014-09-11T02:27:45Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? The car was barely moving. I believe its normal speed was 10 mph (it was, after all, essentially a parade). And it was actually moving slower than that when Oswald took his shots. The President’s car had just slowed down to make a [sharp turn](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xrDiLQqAbzI/Rnq25PPceKI/AAAAAAAAAWw/qQJLwiBEcNs/s1600-h/Dealey_3D_Map.jpg) right in front of the Oswald’s building. The car was probably moving at about walking speed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/39 "2014-09-11T02:41:44Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The Grassy Knoll isn’t some distant place where other snipers could have hidden either. It is just a smallish patch of slightly raised grass directly on the other side of the street and right behind where the crowd was lined up. I was amazed when I saw the grassy knoll in real life. I felt I must be mistaken and was looking at the wrong place. But I wasn’t. Here’s a [picture](http://lamarzulli.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dealey-plaza.jpg) of the grassy knoll. This is the spot where people were claiming somebody was shooting from. Does this really look like a place where you could be hanging out with a rifle? Hell, even in Texas you’d have the police asking you questions. And that’s on a normal business day. If you were standing around with your rifle when the President was expected to be driving by, you’d have been arrested long before he showed up. Some people argue the hypothetical shooter was standing further back behind a fence. Except there’s no place to hide behind the fence either. It’s a public parking lot. Which was full of people that day because the president was driving through. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/40 "2014-09-11T02:50:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The normal Army qualification course has targets from 50 to 300 meters. Anything under 200 is an easy shot with just iron sights and my aging eyes. The USMC KD (Known Distance) rifle course fires from 200, 300, and 500 yards. 5 times the distance of the longest shot, using iron sights. Chip shots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094.md?page=3)