# How good of a shot was Lee Harvey Oswald? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094 "2014-09-10T17:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/101 "2014-09-12T17:05:43Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > …and therefore, whoever convinced the president not to use it was in on the conspiracy. Old, old CT claim. Even after it became more widely understood that the top was not bulletproof. I seem to remember, but can’t find a cite, that the Secret Service was close-mouthed about the canopy, and if people wanted to believe it was bulletproof, that was just fine with them. So the earliest confusion is understandable. Anything much after 1965 is not. But, of course, CTers tend to read nothing but each other’s writings, so… ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/102 "2014-09-12T17:28:24Z")
Unless the bullet struck the bubbletop exactly perpendicularly, it would definitely have deflected. See pages 244- 256 of _The Ultimate Sniper_ for a lot of interesting detail. The whole book is available [here](http://www.patriotresistance.com/The-Ultimate-Sniper-ByMaj-JohnLPlaster.pdf) to read, though it is a huge pdf file. Plaster is the real deal and knows his stuff when it comes to sniping. The only question is whether the deflection would have been enough for Kennedy to have survived. Those of you who are acquainted enough with the tiny details should be able, using Plaster’s information, to roughly extrapolate new points of impact for Oswald’s bullets. ---
**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/103 "2014-09-14T14:47:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Would anybody care to comment on the difficulty of hitting a moving target? A target moving slowly AWAY from you is much easier than a target traveling across your line of fire. ---
**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/104 "2014-09-14T14:52:43Z")
" Oswald got off three rounds with an old Italian bolt action rifle in only six seconds and scored two hits, including a head shot.’’ It is actually TWO shots in 6 seconds; the first shot is at time zero. The clock starts running AFTER the first shot. Not hard at all. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/105 "2014-09-14T15:20:54Z")
> [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](#): > > A target moving slowly AWAY from you is much easier than a target traveling across your line of fire. Or a target moving toward you. Even if your target is unaware of you, your fight/flight response is pumping you full of adrenaline when the target is moving toward you. It’s easier to stay calm and focused on a target moving away from you. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/106 "2014-09-14T15:29:58Z")
> [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](#): > > " Oswald got off three rounds with an old Italian bolt action rifle in only six seconds and scored two hits, including a head shot.‘’ > > It is actually TWO shots in 6 seconds; the first shot is at time zero. The clock starts running AFTER the first shot. Not hard at all. Yeah. That six seconds includes only one bolt action, and two trigger pulls, because it starts with the second trigger pull, and ends with the third one. I think DA Jim Garrison is the person who really hammered home the idea of three bolt actions, and three trigger pulls in six seconds. Of course, Garrison may have been using the best information at the time that the second bullet was the one that missed, but still, including chambering the first bullet in the timing is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/107 "2014-09-14T15:46:57Z")
According to the best reference at hand, the total span for the shots was 8.4 seconds. Using the first shot as zero, the second was at 3.5 seconds and the third at 8.4 seconds. Thus the two killing shots were five seconds apart. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/108 "2014-09-14T20:02:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve always wondered if that route was routinely used for parades and dignitaries. Otherwise it was just pure luck that LHO got a job in a building with such a perfect shooting location. Dealey Plaza was and is, more or less the only way out of downtown Dallas toward the Dallas Trade Mart, which is on the Stemmons Freeway a short distance south of Parkland Hospital. My guess is that LHO’s plan was inspired by his job, and not the other way around. [Here’s the Google Street view from right on top of the “X”. You can see how small the area actually is.](https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7790825,-96.8086133,3a,90y,39.69h,78.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDx4u9tNW65j7ro78puphxQ!2e0) That orange building to the upper left of the BMW is the School Book Depository. Note how close it is. Pan around to the left (counter-clockwise) about 90 degrees. You’re looking at the Grassy Knoll. No way a rifle could have been fired from there and not noticed by EVERYONE in the vicinity. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/109 "2014-09-14T23:30:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I am fond of saying that the world is broken up into two groups; those who have fired a rifle and those who have not, and everyone who thinks LHO did something amazing is in the group that has not. > > One of the more revealing experiences of my life was when I joined the Army and learned to use a rifle, and learned how easy it is to hit things. We started off on the FN-CA1, a big 7.62, and hitting targets at 100 and 200 metres seemed, to me, preposterously easy. We transitioned to the C7, which was the non-scoped version at the time, and it seemed easier still. I would have considered it a serious miss to not hit a target the size of a human head. The minimum standard in the Forces was a 6-inch grouping to get points in the annual qualification, and I always made it with ease, and while I was better than average, almost everyone qualified on the first go. > > Rifles are built and designed to make it easy to hit things far away with accuracy. Anecdotes are not evidence, but I went trap/skeet shooting for the first time in my life (as in, at age 47, this was the first time I ever shot a rifle before, ever) and with but one good eye and no more training than hints and tips given to me by the other guys, hit over 50% of the targets. (Non-scoped rifle, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/110 "2014-09-14T23:39:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Anecdotes are not evidence, but I went trap/skeet shooting for the first time in my life (as in, at age 47, this was the first time I ever shot a rifle before, ever) and with but one good eye and no more training than hints and tips given to me by the other guys, hit over 50% of the targets. (Non-scoped rifle, of course.) You went trap/skeet shooting with a RIFLE? Sorry, but this is most likely (for a large value of most) not true. Trap and skeet are done with shotguns and most (probably all) ranges used for them are not safe for elevated rifle file. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/111 "2014-09-14T23:44:00Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > You went trap/skeet shooting with a RIFLE? Sorry, but this is most likely (for a large value of most) not true. Trap and skeet are done with shotguns and most (probably all) ranges used for them are not safe for elevated rifle file. Shows my ignorance - it was a shotgun. :o Like I said… _never_ did this before, didn’t even know what the hell I was shooting! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/112 "2014-09-15T02:48:34Z")
If Oswald had used a shotgun, we wouldn’t be having this debate over whether he meant to hit Kennedy or Connally. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/113 "2014-09-15T02:56:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If Oswald had used a shotgun, we wouldn’t be having this debate over whether he meant to hit Kennedy or Connally. He would also have hit Zapruder and the guys on the grassy knoll. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/114 "2014-09-15T03:02:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My guess is that LHO’s plan was inspired by his job, and not the other way around. That’s a certainty, because he started working there before Kennedy even made plans to visit Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/115 "2014-09-15T03:28:38Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I read somewhere the Lee Harvey Oswald was replaced by a lookalike when he was in the Soviet Union, so his USMC drills might not be relevant Nope, this is a red herring to cover the real conspiracy. See, JFK was abducted by aliens that had escaped from Area 51. They quickly realized that somebody might notice a missing president so they swapped in a anatomically correct dummy (the fruition of all those previous alien abductions). They then used mind-control powers to make LHO shoot the gun. This is all true; I heard it directly from a guy on a train who read it on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/116 "2014-09-15T03:41:30Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > That’s a certainty, because he started working there before Kennedy even made plans to visit Dallas. Ahhh, you failed to take into account psychic powers or maybe he had KGB operatives with connections within the Secret Service that routed the motorcade straight into his sights. How do you respond to that? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/117 "2014-09-15T04:19:59Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Nope, this is a red herring to cover the real conspiracy. See, JFK was abducted by aliens that had escaped from Area 51. They quickly realized that somebody might notice a missing president so they swapped in a anatomically correct dummy (the fruition of all those previous alien abductions). They then used mind-control powers to make LHO shoot the gun. This is all true; I heard it directly from a guy on a train who read it on the internet. Wake up, people. Kennedy and Oswald were the same person. Think, did you ever see them in the same room together? What happened on November 22, 1963 was an elaborately staged suicide. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/118 "2014-09-15T20:00:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He would also have hit Zapruder and the guys on the grassy knoll. 😉 Hell, at that distance, he still might have hit JFK, had he used buckshot and a full-choke shotgun. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/119 "2014-09-16T13:41:58Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Nope, this is a red herring to cover the real conspiracy. See, JFK was abducted by aliens that had escaped from Area 51. They quickly realized that somebody might notice a missing president so they swapped in a anatomically correct dummy (the fruition of all those previous alien abductions). They then used mind-control powers to make LHO shoot the gun. This is all true; I heard it directly from a guy on a train who read it on the internet. I thought [JFK assassinated JFK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6naJ08Tskk). It’s on YouTube so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094/120 "2014-09-16T14:51:10Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > The only thing I have to add to the previous posters is that a visit to the 6th Floor Museum in the book depository building will erase any illusions one might have about the difficulty of the shots. The X on the street does not look far away at all. Easy shots with a scoped rifle. This. I always had an element of doubt about the grassy knoll stuff until I visited the 6th Floor Museum. My grandmother could have made that shot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-of-a-shot-was-lee-harvey-oswald/698094.md?page=7)