# How good was Michael Jordan's era? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 21, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761 "2020-01-21T18:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/121 "2020-01-29T17:11:41Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I guess all of this proves the original point that teams, and not individuals, win championships. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Sure, some individual players contribute more to the “whole” by being better and making other players better. But counting rings in no way makes MJ a better player than LeBron. Again, and this is subjective, but you replace Jordan with LeBron, and the Bulls still win 6 and likely a whole lot more. Can’t say the same the other way around. You keep making claims that make no sense. MJ never had a Heatles team, as pointed out by facts. What makes you think Jordan wouldn’t win until Bosh died on that Miami team? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/122 "2020-01-29T17:31:00Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You keep making claims that make no sense. MJ never had a Heatles team, as pointed out by facts. What makes you think Jordan wouldn’t win until Bosh died on that Miami team? Again, I’m not going to re-hash everything again. I have about a dozen posts in this thread. If you want to dispute something factual, be specific. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/123 "2020-01-29T18:00:39Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Again, I’m not going to re-hash everything again. I have about a dozen posts in this thread. If you want to dispute something factual, be specific. A dozen posts of opinions. Asserting that your opinions are facts does not make them facts. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/124 "2020-01-29T18:18:03Z")
Well it was fun while it lasted… ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/125 "2020-01-29T18:21:12Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > Well it was fun while it lasted… That’s what Cleveland, then Miami, then Cleveland again said when LeBron was taking his talents to find other talents to play with so he could win 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/126 "2020-01-29T18:40:27Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > That’s what Cleveland, then Miami, then Cleveland again said when LeBron was taking his talents to find other talents to play with so he could win 🙂 Then they set his jersey on fire… For me, the worst part of this debate is the fact that I am a _HUGE_ Lakers fan and I hope like hell that Lebron gets #4 while wearing a Laker jersey. I don’t mind telling you that I have had a very hard time trying to reconcile my hate for Lebron with my love for the Lakers. This is such a confusing time for me… ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/127 "2020-01-29T18:46:35Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > …Asserting that your opinions are facts does not make them facts. When I have time, I’ll go back to educating you and **BeagleJesus**. Be patient. It really is taking longer than we thought! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/128 "2020-01-29T18:48:31Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > When I have time, I’ll go back to educating you and **BeagleJesus**. Be patient. It really is taking longer than we thought! 😉 Again with the insults? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/129 "2020-01-29T19:10:11Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > When I have time, I’ll go back to educating you and **BeagleJesus**. Be patient. It really is taking longer than we thought! 😉 Bring it! I’ll send your ass home like the '07 Cavs (This is a joke. This is only a joke. In case of an actual insult I will express much more vitriol and use a lot more curse words) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/130 "2020-01-29T19:10:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Again with the insults? :rolleyes: Apologies. Re-reading what I wrote could be taken as an insult, so sorry for that. While I generally take sports discussions kind of seriously, that part was meant to be in jest (which is why I winked). ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/131 "2020-01-29T19:17:23Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > Bring it! I’ll send your ass home like the '07 Cavs That powerhouse team featuring Drew Gooden and Ilgauskas? I assume you think that Jordan would have fared better? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/132 "2020-01-29T19:19:36Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Apologies. Re-reading what I wrote could be taken as an insult, so sorry for that. While I generally take sports discussions kind of seriously, that part was meant to be in jest (which is why I winked). All good. It was the “educating” us part that chafed a bit, but I also know that sports discussions usually feature a good amount of back and forth ribbing. I suppose I could take this all a little less seriously 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/133 "2020-01-29T19:28:28Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > That powerhouse team featuring Drew Gooden and Ilgauskas? I assume you think that Jordan would have fared better? He would probably fare about the same. Similar to the first few years of MJs career with teammates such as Dave Corzine, Granville Waiters, Pete Myers and _rechecks name_ Sedale Threatt. You know the teams you claim were superior to any that LeBron has ever played with. How do you suppose LeBron would fare with those teammates in an era with the Bird/McHale/Parrish Celtics and the Magic/Kareem/Worthy lakers, not to mention the Isaiah Pistons? You’re still trying to give LeBrons teammates all of the blame, but not giving Jordan’s early years the same consideration. Those teams were bad aside from Michael. Just like LeBron’s early Cavs teams. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/134 "2020-01-29T19:39:28Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That punk band’s album cover should feature a giant “drinking bird” toy dipping into a toilet. Thinking about it some more, “turd dunkin’” is probably better, with a punk Thanksgiving themed album cover. YES it’s been on my mind the entire day WHAT ABOUT IT ?! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/135 "2020-01-29T20:07:59Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > He would probably fare about the same. Similar to the first few years of MJs career with teammates such as Dave Corzine, Granville Waiters, Pete Myers and _rechecks name_ Sedale Threatt. You know the teams you claim were superior to any that LeBron has ever played with. No one in this thread has claimed the Bulls in Jordan’s very early days were all that good aside from Jordan. The comparisons being made are between the teams that actually won. The Bulls finally getting good exactly coincides with the arrival of Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant, illustrating that no man can single handedly win in the NBA. It just cannot be done. Even Wilt Chamberlain when he was playing every minute and putting up Nintendo numbers couldn’t win by himself. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/136 "2020-01-29T20:15:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No one in this thread has claimed the Bulls in Jordan’s very early days were all that good aside from Jordan. The comparisons being made are between the teams that actually won. Not true. I believe the line I’m remembering is something like: Jordan lost with teammates that were far superior to any that LeBron has played with. This criticism was referring to the first 5-6 years of his career when he was losing in the playoffs. The majority of that time was before Pippen and Grant and with the chumps I mentioned earlier. Can’t have it both ways and talk about LeBron’s crappy teammates early in his career and not use the same criteria to view the crappy teammates Jordan had early in his career. If we’re comparing, then we need to compare fairly. I can pull that quote if you doubt it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/137 "2020-01-29T20:17:09Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Again, I’m not going to re-hash everything again. I have about a dozen posts in this thread. If you want to dispute something factual, be specific. You’ve argued that Jordan’s championship teammates were better. A look at the actual numbers proved that wrong, so you just went with “well duh, teams win championships” and then repeated your argument that Jordan had better teammates. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/138 "2020-01-29T20:27:46Z")
Jordan was playing with Pippen and Grant for four seasons without winning the title; it wasn’t until 1991 that they won it all. It was only the first two years of his career he didn’t have those guys. I didn’t make the argument Jordan lost with better teams than LeBron did, and one would struggle to really prove something like that one way or the other, but I am really, really sure no one meant the 1985 Bulls had anyone good on them not name “Michael Jordan.” I think he WON with better teams, but again it’s hard to objectively prove. As to what put the Bulls over the top, that’s hard to say. The 89-90 Bulls went 55-27 and they did have Pippen and Grant, and John Paxson was decent but after that, it’s not a deep team, and they lost to the Pistons in the third round. In 1991 basically the same team won the Finals; maybe they just needed another year. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/139 "2020-01-29T21:02:19Z")
LeBron didn’t win immediately with Wade and Bosh either. In fact that first finals LeBron was completely absent. A non-factor. Do you think there is any chance in hell that Jordan would ever be such a non-existent entity in a finals series?! If you want to be the GOAT you cannot disappear in the finals like that. Ever. Regardless of who your teammates are. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761/140 "2020-01-29T21:16:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > As a life-long Chicagoan and only the most casual of basketball fans (it’s my least favorite major sport), absolutely not. If it’s Jordan vs Capone, come on. I don’t care for basketball either, but I lived through that whole three-peat madness, and Jordan was all anyone wanted to talk about. Then, the talking heads on the news shows started bleating that around the world, Michael Jordan was replacing Al Capone as the symbol of Chicago. I wanted to vomit by that time. I don’t think Michael Jordan is interesting at all. Capone, on the other hand… (Okay, okay, I know Al Capone was a vicious killer. But he interests me more than Jordan does.) How about we compromise and make Barack Obama the symbol of Chicago? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-was-michael-jordans-era/846761.md?page=8)