# How good would Harris be in the general? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** kamala-harris\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218 "2019-06-28T14:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/41 "2019-06-29T14:25:26Z")
Harris made two pre-packaged statements in the debate (food on the table, and the Biden attack) and now that makes her a serious discussion for the general election? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/42 "2019-06-29T14:52:37Z")
Right now, even as we speak, Republicans are poring over her DA record. They want two things, one, a black person who feels that she was not sufficiently “anti-racist”, extra special bonus points for an unjust or unwise prosecution. And if they can’t find one, they’ll make it up. Extra special super dooper bonus points for a white guy who could credibly claim that a black defendant got leniency that he was denied. Actually, “credibly” may not be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/43 "2019-06-29T14:59:44Z")
I don’t think black people will appreciate Kamala’s record as Attorney General of California. She’s another (of many) who suddenly have come to copy Bernie’s stances on the issues because they see how a majority of Americans support it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/44 "2019-06-29T15:52:51Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > I don’t think black people will appreciate Kamala’s record as Attorney General of California. She’s another (of many) who suddenly have come to copy Bernie’s stances on the issues because they see how a majority of Americans support it. Black people are not a monolithic block voter population. Older ones support Biden. Younger ones might support Harris, or Sanders. Harris has a smugness about her that I think some people find off-putting. She strikes me as a politician with a flexible populist instinct, not as someone with a very deep set of convictions. She seems more given to doing what’s expedient. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/45 "2019-06-29T16:23:41Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > This is quite true. And frankly Kamala Harris is exactly the same sort of MOR Democrat. She’s not an aggressive progressive - she’s an aggressive prosecutor. Progressives better remember that if she wins and as with Obama starts showing signs of not being as liberal as they in a year or two. > > I was just fine with Obama and I suspect I’d be fine with Harris. But I’m a pragmatist before I’m a progressive. If you start looking for progressive purity tests, Kamala Harris will not pass them. An aggressive prosecutor is fine. Just so long as she is aggressive and stands her ground. But then again John Kerry was a prosecutor and he wasn’t very tough. Either way, as long as Harris fights for what she can get and stands up for herself and her agenda, I’d be fine with her as president. Since we’ve already had a black president I don’t think her race would work against her too much. Maybe her gender a little bit, but I’m wondering if having a female major candidate took some steam out of that misogyny for 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/46 "2019-06-29T16:56:29Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > My feeling is that practically all of the candidates are rolling long shot dice to be the top of the ticket, but would be satisfied with VP or a cabinet post. From just a marketing point of view, one could argue for the white guy at the top of the ticket, and a person of color and/or gender as the #2. Trouble is Joe is too old, has too much baggage, and frankly was a distant also ran at least twice. Poor analogy, but he’s a minor leaguer that can’t make it in the show (or to be kind, he’s a Michael Jordan that can’t hit off of a Major league pitcher). Same for Bernie, a one trick “socialist” that suddenly found himself in “what was old is new” situation last time around, and also no where near to making it past the convention, much less the primary. > > The only saving grace I can think of for an old white guy with a proven track record of falling short in the big leagues, is that it would be a back door way to elect the first female president when he croaks in office. Assuming the ticket wins. I was thinking exactly the same things. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/47 "2019-06-29T20:40:28Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > No. But I would like better qualifications than [color] and/ or [gender]. And I’d like better qualifications than how they’d appeal to voters in PennWiscIgan. My basic thought about that is that if Hillary had won by 3% instead of 2% nationally, more than enough of that gain would have been in those three states that she’d be President right now. If the Dem nominee in 2020 has a solid popular vote win, she’ll win the EC too. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/48 "2019-06-29T21:02:50Z")
TBH, I would doubt that she wins out here in her CA home state. If she did win CA, it would be closer than Beto/Cruz. She’ll flip-flop on guns, doesn’t have that deep a record as DA and sometimes she has that “What? Me worry?” face. 😃 If she’s the nom, she’ll have my vote but I wouldn’t bet on a victory. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/49 "2019-06-29T21:30:21Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > TBH, I would doubt that she wins out here in her CA home state. Wait…are we talking primary or election? Primary will depend a lot on the narrative and polling at that moment. She could certainly lose in CA, but only if one or two other candidates are surging strongly. The election? Good lord, no. She’d annihilate Trump in CA. _Any_ Democrat will, but Harris herself likely won’t do any worse than Hillary( who won the state by 30 points )and might even do a bit better this time considering the political climate out here. Even if she ran a crap campaign and topped it off by calling Californians collectively a bunch of useless wankers she’d still win the state by 51%. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/50 "2019-06-29T21:47:39Z")
I know nothing of the state-by-state horseraces that the electoral college system leads to, but Ms. Harris would eat Trump alive at the debates. With ketchup. Whatever her flaws as President might be, they would be worth it just to see those debates. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/51 "2019-06-29T21:58:57Z")
In the debate, Harris was one of two candidates who said she’d get rid of private health care (Bernie was the other). If she gets the nod she’s gonna _need_ to walk that the fuck back immediately, and that’ll be pretty embarrassing. Other than that, I think she’s a pretty good candidate. Not my favourite, but definitely up there. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/52 "2019-06-29T22:17:40Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > In the debate, Harris was one of two candidates who said she’d get rid of private health care (Bernie was the other). If she gets the nod she’s gonna _need_ to walk that the fuck back immediately, and that’ll be pretty embarrassing. > > Other than that, I think she’s a pretty good candidate. Not my favourite, but definitely up there. [She already has.](https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-backtracks-eliminating-private-insurance-1446495) ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/53 "2019-06-29T22:44:29Z")
Cool. Glad to hear it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/54 "2019-06-29T22:56:30Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > My feeling is that practically all of the candidates are rolling long shot dice to be the top of the ticket, but would be satisfied with VP or a cabinet post. From just a marketing point of view, one could argue for the white guy at the top of the ticket, and a person of color and/or gender as the #2. Trouble is Joe is too old, has too much baggage, \*\*and frankly was a distant also ran at least twice. \*\*Poor analogy, but he’s a minor leaguer that can’t make it in the show (or to be kind, he’s a Michael Jordan that can’t hit off of a Major league pitcher). Same for Bernie, a one trick “socialist” that suddenly found himself in “what was old is new” situation last time around, and also no where near to making it past the convention, much less the primary. > > The only saving grace I can think of for an old white guy with a proven track record of falling short in the big leagues, is that it would be a back door way to elect the first female president when he croaks in office. Assuming the ticket wins. Good post, but the part I bolded is of particular significance. I think Joe’s past failures as a candidate, as recently as 2008, can’t be dismissed as a case of simply not being his time. Not everyone’s good at campaigning and building a political coalition from the ground up. Since we’re using sports analogies, I think Joe Biden is kinda like the back-up QB that went on a 4 or 5 game win streak and landed a new contract and starting job with another team that saw promise. Maybe he’s the Matt Cassel or Jimmy Garapolo of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/55 "2019-06-29T23:17:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Since we’re using sports analogies, I think Joe Biden is kinda like the back-up QB that went on a 4 or 5 game win streak and landed a new contract and starting job with another team that saw promise. Maybe he’s the Matt Cassel or Jimmy Garapolo of politics. There’s always Nick Foles… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/56 "2019-06-30T02:34:45Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > The only saving grace I can think of for an old white guy with a proven track record of falling short in the big leagues, is that it would be a back door way to elect the first female president when he croaks in office. Assuming the ticket wins. > [@Biffster](#): > > I was thinking exactly the same things. I’ll bet a whole bunch of the religious right were thinking the same thing about Mike Pence when they voted for Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/57 "2019-06-30T03:16:38Z")
No, they were thinking “if Pence vouches for Trump, then shit, Trump is our guy.” Most of those people LOVE Trump now. They’re not waiting for him to croak. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/58 "2019-06-30T07:30:12Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > No, they were thinking “if Pence vouches for Trump, then shit, Trump is our guy.” Most of those people LOVE Trump now. They’re not waiting for him to croak. I think they were thinking "we will give trump a chance, and if he fails god with smite him smitely, and Pence is our insurance ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/59 "2019-06-30T10:40:19Z")
I’m… more of Harris than Biden, but among (at least young) leftists Harris has a rep as “a cop” as in “all cops are bastards” and “never trust a cop”. She was a prosecutor, not literally police, of course, but she has a rep as being an arm of the crueler part of the state which is especially dicey given the political situation with the perceived overreach of the (state/city-level) executive arm such as civil forfeiture, over-incarceration problems, BLM etc. She may ameliorate a degree of this among at least some classes of leftist POC being black herself, and having at least made some attempts while DA to raise “accountability” and other things, but she still has that attached to her. She also has a rep for making some really bad calls wrt her record as DA, such as fighting fairly hard to deny trans women GCS in prison. She’s also been very aggressive about sex work which is something that even a lot of progressives (that is, Liberals-But-Not-Quite-Leftists) are liable to take notice of on the heels of the FOSTA/SESTA debacle. She also had a bit of a bad look in the office when it came to her office defending prison slavery. [She did say that’s not the intention and she didn’t know the defenses were being made](https://thinkprogress.org/california-attorney-general-says-her-offices-defense-of-prison-labor-evokes-chain-gangs-5c768fd447a4/), but she still was ultimately the one guiding her office’s agenda to push back against increased parole opportunities, and her best defense is “I know it looks bad buuuuuut”. It looks like the equivalent of “sorry you were offended.” She’s walked a lot of this back for her primary bid, but **especially** due to the “never trust a cop” wariness, a lot of the left is extremely leery she’s going to stab them in the back so to speak. Due to it they’re very ready to drop her if she walks back on enough. Fair or not, she’s in a precarious position as a general candidate where if she walks back on just one too many things, a lot of people are going to pull back from disgust because they’ll perceive her as about to walk **everything else** they want/need back to her previous positions the second she takes office. This isn’t an unfounded fear, she already walked back the medicare thing, and people **in this thread** are already lauding her for her perceived ability to “pivot” to further right positions during the general. Personally, I don’t see her as a great candidate for the general because in my view, our gains aren’t going to be converting people who voted for Trump. It’s largely going to be motivating people with existing sympathies to the Democratic party to actually bother voting, and Harris defeats a lot of that with further left voters. This isn’t “Hillary 2.0” but it is a similar problem to what Hillary faced wrt motivation I think. Note as far as “getting (non-radicalized) Trump voters” I feel like there is **something** to gain there with working class voters, but I think the party in general is already doing a fairly decent job of addressing the issues to convert them, or convince them to at least stay home – meaningfully acknowledging the economic problems we face and presenting concrete solutions that don’t scapegoat a bogeyman like immigrants, foreign countries, or refugees. A lot of the Trump voting was IMO frustration with weak liberal policymaking and a failure to really engage with or pay attention to a lot of issues brewing beneath the surface. That’s why Sanders caught such fire, for instance. Trump acknowledged those problems… the solutions he proposed were bigoted nonsense, but he acknowledged the problems and presented a seeming solution. Harris wouldn’t necessarily be any weaker on this front, but she certainly isn’t any stronger than her peers, which is why I think we need to focus more on exciting the back-end when most of the frontrunners already have plans that, intentionally or not, address these issues. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/60 "2019-06-30T14:01:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Harris has a smugness about her that I think some people find off-putting. She strikes me as a politician with a flexible populist instinct, not as someone with a very deep set of convictions. She seems more given to doing what’s expedient. > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > [She already has.](https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-backtracks-eliminating-private-insurance-1446495) QED [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218.md?page=4)