# How good would Harris be in the general? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** kamala-harris\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218 "2019-06-28T14:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/101 "2019-07-03T00:08:49Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Ryan is my representative, and while I don’t dislike him, I’ve never been exactly enamored with him either. > > But I believe he’s absolutely right about one thing: the Dems have to fight the perception of being a coastal party and start paying more attention to the working class in the middle of the country. That was one of Hilary’s many mistakes. > > My county and the one immediately to our north have been unquestioned Democratic strongholds for decades. The one to the north went for Trump in 2016, and my county came very close to doing the same. That was simply unprecedented. > > We can’t have a repeat of that. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Serious question: what does it mean to be a “coastal” party? Do working class voters on the coasts have different concerns than those in the interior do? Because really, I hear this and it just sounds like code for “stop talking about racial and gender justice issues”. But guess what, there are a lot of minority and female working class voters in the Midwest, so…😕 Yes, there’s a lot of coding at work in discussions of “coastal elites” and such. Nevertheless, the Democratic nominee needs to spend more time in the mid-western and middle-Atlantic and generally ‘rust-belt’ areas than happened in 2016. The Democratic party must emphasize ‘good jobs for everyone’ as opposed to concentrating on language about reparations and such. ‘Good jobs for everyone’ doesn’t leave out those who’ve suffered from generations of bias—it includes them. It’s a balancing act, without a doubt. But we lose if we let those hoping to divide us along racial-resentment or geographic-resentment lines, succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/102 "2019-07-03T00:30:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > “Coastal” has a clear meaning to those not on the coasts, be it accurate or not. It evokes the old New Yorker cover of seeing the rest of the states as unimportant flyover country and the concerns of their voters as picayune and rather quaint. A candidate who hails from New York or California has that as a stereotype going in. Playing the part of the stereotype will lead to bad results. It only amplifies the impact of disregarding the real problems of less educated working class whites. Which problems do “less educated working class whites” have that aren’t shared by less educated working class people of other races? Why would a candidate who has won the votes of white working class people in New York or California be unable to appeal to white working class people in Iowa or Pennsylvania? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/103 "2019-07-03T00:36:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Her “big idea” so far is that mandatory busing was a good idea (voluntary was not) and is something that should be done today. That’s not a “big idea” she has, it was her 1st debate trap that she now has to ride out for a bit to not look full of crap. I’m betting she will ride it out soon enough. If Trump wants to bring it up in the general, I can imagine several ways Harris can be prepared for it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/104 "2019-07-03T01:06:19Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, there’s a lot of coding at work in discussions of “coastal elites” and such. Why don’t we just call them what people who use that term really think they are: **Rich Jews who went to private colleges we can’t afford, and will buy their kids’ way into those same schools.** ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/105 "2019-07-03T01:39:30Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Which problems do “less educated working class whites” have that aren’t shared by less educated working class people of other races? Why would a candidate who has won the votes of white working class people in New York or California be unable to appeal to white working class people in Iowa or Pennsylvania? Serious answers. 1. The where they are predominantly located. Less educated minorities and whites living in and near cities have different potential action plans to address poverty and wealth inequality than do those living in smaller towns and rural locations. The urban poor and the rural poor live in different economies. 2. The lack of being mentioned as having problems worth addressing. Clinton’s great “building bridges” to those in need of help very notably left these people off the list. > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why don’t we just call them what people who use that term really think they are: > > **Rich Jews who went to private colleges we can’t afford, and will buy their kids’ way into those same schools.** As a Jew I call bullshit on this. There definitely is anti-Semitism in this country, across the political spectrum, and perceptions (justified or not) about “flyover country” being looked down on if not just looked past and over by coastal elites is not it. Oh there are some who conflate their Jew-hating with anti-intellectualism and code wording New York and Hollywood … but it is them overlapping their hate onto a perception that already exists of its own accord. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/106 "2019-07-03T03:20:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes Biden needs to attack mandatory busing as a bad idea today, clearly and forcefully, as the wrong approach to dealing with issues of racial justice and inequities. I think that would serve him well _in the primaries_ and in the general. …Biden absolutely 100% should not be attacking “mandatory busing”, he should not be talking about busing at all, if there is any subject his handlers should be telling him to “never talk about” its the subject of busing. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSS4dOe8Ul8)is what Biden’s handlers should do if he wants to mention busing. Zip it. Zip it! Zi-i-ip. Look! I’m “Zippy” Longstocking! When a problem comes along, you must zip it! Zip it good! No good will come revisiting this. Let it go. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/107 "2019-07-03T04:15:57Z")
Agreed. It’s not that he took this position once upon a time, but that he teamed up with notorious segregationists on it. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/108 "2019-07-03T16:18:17Z")
I think in the context of choosing a candidate, it’s not even that he took the position, but that he seemed completely flustered and unprepared when questioned about it, which was something he should have seen coming a mile a way. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/109 "2019-07-03T16:22:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 1. The where they are predominantly located. Less educated minorities and whites living in and near cities have different potential action plans to address poverty and wealth inequality than do those living in smaller towns and rural locations. The urban poor and the rural poor live in different economies. So why didn’t you say “less educated working class rural people?” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/110 "2019-07-03T16:25:29Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why don’t we just call them what people who use that term really think they are: > > **Rich Jews who went to private colleges we can’t afford, and will buy their kids’ way into those same schools.** As another Jew I think you’re on to something. I don’t think the majority of the people who use that term are consciously anti-Semitic, but it’s…interesting…that the parts of the country that are being demonized just happen to be areas with large Jewish populations, as well as large immigrant populations. Now to fulfill the joke DSeid and I have to come up with a third opinion between us.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/111 "2019-07-03T16:28:18Z")
Also, more to the point, large Democratic-voting populations, large non-northern-European populations, and large intellectual populations. Antisemitism might be a factor too but it’s far from the only one or the main one. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/112 "2019-07-03T16:33:18Z")
What Elvis said. The Jewish thing strikes me as a bit of a stretch in 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/113 "2019-07-03T16:57:06Z")
Yes, I agree that it’s not the only factor or the main factor, but I do think it is _a_ factor. I’m not sure why Elvis feels the need to raise this point since what I posted couldn’t remotely be interpreted as saying it _was_ the only or main factor, but whatevs. Slacker, I don’t know why you’d imply that anti-Semitism no longer exists in America, given the recent dramatic rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes. We’re less than a year past the deadliest act of anti-Semitic terrorism in US history. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/114 "2019-07-03T17:05:22Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > what I posted couldn’t remotely be interpreted as saying it _was_ the only or main factor It’s the only one you thought worth mentioning, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/115 "2019-07-03T17:09:20Z")
Um, no, actually, it wasn’t. Try reading before replying. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/116 "2019-07-03T18:20:36Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So why didn’t you say “less educated working class rural people?” “Coastal” is my part of the code for “not rural flyover” when used disparagingly. And regionally it is not far off. Even rural areas on the coast often have their economies driven by nearby cities. For most of the coasts a city is never too far away. Not so much as you move inland. But yes you can also map this mindset onto rural v urban with much overlap to those who hold it ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/117 "2019-07-03T18:24:27Z")
Yes a non-major factor. Not zero. But not in general “what people who use the term really think.” Unfortunately not even two very different opinions here! Off our game man. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/118 "2019-07-03T21:59:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Also, more to the point, large Democratic-voting populations, large non-northern-European populations, and large intellectual populations. Antisemitism might be a factor too but it’s far from the only one or the main one. No one looking at events of the past couple of years can doubt that explicit anti-Semitism is alive and well in the USA. I’d agree, though, that resentment of “coastal elites” encompasses not just anti-Semitism, but a general suspicion of anyone with an education—who is presumed to be looking down on the noble and virtuous less-educated Real Americans who do not live in them fancy beach houses along the coasts. (Or so the self-mythologizing goes.) There’s a whole cauldron of hatred and wounded pride boiling over among certain portions of the population—encouraged by those who benefit from this division, of course. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/119 "2019-07-04T11:30:11Z")
On PredictIt, Trump jumped from 40% to 44% when Harris took the lead for the Democratic nominee. Harris always impressed me in hearings. She was tough, confident, and didn’t let antagonizers squirm out of questions. I imagined she’d make mincemeat of Trump in a debate. She’s also a good orator. She was my first choice a while back - until I learned of her record as prosecutor. My biggest concern for her in the general is that, since she made her bones on issues of race, she’s going to assume that’s a winning strategy for the general. And of all the candidates running on what could be the winning issue for the general–healthcare–she’s the weakest by a longshot. While I used to think Warren came off as weak–a woman trying to speak in a roomful of men but never having enough gravitas to command their attention, she has now found her voice and has developed into a confident, inspiring orator (who I believe could come up with a good line to shut down the Pocahantas Gambit). Unfortunately, both are running on Medicare for All which could scare off a lot of potential voters. I’ll have to wait and see how things develop from here. As of now, if I were making high school superlatives of each candidate I’d say: Most Likely to Beat Trump in the General - Biden Most Likely to Trounce Trump in a Debate - Harris Most Competent and Likely to Create Positive Progressive Change as POTUS - Warren ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218/120 "2019-07-04T15:24:46Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > …I imagined she’d make mincemeat of Trump in a debate. I think they would just interrupt each other while they were screaming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-good-would-harris-be-in-the-general/836218.md?page=7)