# How hard is it to fly an Airplane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792 "2013-03-02T03:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/61 "2013-03-03T16:38:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > While an airplane will virtually take off itself, [helicopters won’t](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI4d5AeAi7g). As I said earlier, GA aircraft tend to have positive stability. Helicopters are inherently unstable. The linked video shows what happens when an untrained student attempts to take off on his own. I’ll always trading plane and helicopter videos with my brother, but somehow missed that one. Thanks for it. Cameraman had some serious cojones to hold that camera still and capture all of that. I’d have immediately been runnin’ for cover the second I detected trouble. Here’s a few more that some may have not seen. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAYrcu5\_Pko](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAYrcu5_Pko) Drunk helicopter gag. Short clip, but funny! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as82OA\_GtnA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as82OA_GtnA) Drunk pilot gag and show. One hell of a pilot, with some serious piloting skills! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDu0jYiz-v8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDu0jYiz-v8) Not funny, but shows a real plane crash from inside. One of those what-the-hell-was-he-thinking-moments! Young kids take off with an old instructor who doesn’t make a good judgment call to abort take off. The plane was overloaded, it was a hot day, and density altitude was really bad. Despite having plenty of runway and enough time to make the decision to abort, he doesn’t. Even about halfway in, he bounces and gets airborne briefly, but then comes back down, and yet, still decides to keep going down the old dirt strip. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/62 "2013-03-03T19:03:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Sort of I suppose, except that I’ve never seen a gust lock that can be engaged accidentally. They generally take a bit of force to engage and/or a certain technique. It’s not the sort of thing that can be bumped in to place. It’s true that the experts in that case believe the gust lock was disengaged intentionally. It might be impossible to do accidentally, but at least it’s a single control that caused the behavior posited by the OP (“flip over and fall out of the sky.”) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/63 "2013-03-04T01:11:45Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > Alright, so the next question is, who exactly is he going to be talking to on those simulated radios? Does the flight simulator software actually have recorded lines from ground traffic controllers to give him flight clearances and such over them? There are people that sim being air traffic controllers. Not sure if [this](http://www.vatsim.net/about-vatsim/) is the biggest or most common ones. They have some sort of air traffic control simulation software and the pilots and ATCs communicate using real world language. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/64 "2013-03-04T01:27:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Aviate, communicate, navigate.’ This is much more often given as “Aviate, navigate, communicate” - calling for help should be a long way behind sorting out your situation for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/65 "2013-03-04T01:32:12Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > This is much more often given as “Aviate, navigate, communicate” - calling for help should be a long way behind sorting out your situation for yourself. You are correct. I swapped the last two. However I think that a non-pilot should communicate before navigating, since s/he would probably not know where to go without asking. ‘Aviate’ remains first. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/66 "2013-03-04T02:19:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > There are people that sim being air traffic controllers. Not sure if [this](http://www.vatsim.net/about-vatsim/) is the biggest or most common ones. They have some sort of air traffic control simulation software and the pilots and ATCs communicate using real world language. MS Flight sim comes with a basic artificial intelligence ATC and you can get ATC ad-ons. You need to use key strokes rather than voice but you can still use radio stacks like the one in the photo to tune frequencies. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/67 "2013-03-04T02:47:06Z")
It takes about 20 hours of stick time to learn to fly. It takes about that long to learn to type 20 words per minute. I’m a lousy typist, so it’s good I don’t want to fly. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/68 "2013-03-04T03:07:34Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > … Heh. I even wrote an app to help with the calculations. > > -Ground Speed > -Altitude to lose > -Feet per minute decent > -Commit Point (distance from runway) > Enter any three and get the last number… I presume in real life every airplane has at least this? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/69 "2013-03-04T09:42:28Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I’m glad to hear that while takeoff is more dangerous, landing is more difficult. I do a lot of flight sim and that has always been the case for me. Setting up a proper glide path for a landing is pretty intense. Heh. I even wrote an app to help with the calculations. > > -Ground Speed > -Altitude to lose > -Feet per minute decent > -Commit Point (distance from runway) > Enter any three and get the last number. > > Anyway, it’s much much easier to abort a landing, than a takeoff. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I presume in real life every airplane has at least this? Yes and No. Some do everything for you so you don’t need to get a number out of it, it just descends at the appropriate time (you should be backing it up with mental calculations though.) Others don’t do this stuff for you and they don’t have anything built in to calculate it, mainly because it is quite simple and can be done just by using the 3 x table. For a basic top of descent point multiply altitude to lose by 3 to get distance in nautical miles (adjust decimal point to make answer reasonable.) A heavy aeroplane glides further than a light one, a headwind reduces the distance required while a tailwind increases it. You need to slow down to 250 knots at 10,000’ and back to 200 knots by 3000’, each of those decelerations will use about 3 Nm miles. Experience will tell you whether you can use the basic descent point or if you should adjust it one way or the other. Whatever you decide you can always fix it on the way down if you get it wrong. The normal 3º glideslope is actually closer to 3 x distance = height rather than 3 x height = distance so closer to touchdown when it is more important to be accurate we can change to 3 x distance. Example. Cruising altitude 32,000’ for an arrival to Adelaide. Adelaide is at sea level so we have 32,000’ to lose. 32 x 3 = 96 nautical miles from Adelaide is our basic top of descent point. As a gate to aim for we want to be at 3000’ at 10 Nm starting the ILS. We also want to be slowed down enough to be able to commence flap and gear extensions. So after commencing our descent at 96 Nm we monitor our descent profile on a regular basis and compare how high we are verses how high we should be. At 45 Nm we should be about 15000’, at 30 miles it should be about 10,000’. There is no need to be precise until you get on to the ILS. Up at 32000 it doesn’t matter if you are a few thousand feet high or low. If you are low, you add power, if you are high and the power is back at idle you need to add drag, either with spoilers or speed brake depending on the aircraft type. Passing 15000’ you want to be within 1000’ of your target altitude. At 10,000’ within 500’ is good, at 10 Nm you want to be spot on 3000’ and then spot on the glide slope from there down. There is a perception that you need to be deadly accurate when flying, but you don’t and a lot of the time it is better if you don’t try to be. The following are very useful for the working pilot, KIS, TLAR, and SHIG - Keep it Simple, That Looks About Right, and See How it Goes. If you KIS you leave yourself brain-space for the important stuff. For things like a descent you can use TLAR for your top of descent then follow it up with regular SHIG checks. If you need to adjust then adjust. The closer to the ground you are the more accurate you need to be. Over the runway threshold you want to be within 10 feet of your target altitude, at 30,000’ you can be 5000’ off your target altitude and easily fix it. Using an app, while an interesting exercise, is overkill and can cause more problems than it solves by drawing you in to unnecessary precision. You become in danger of losing the big picture. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/70 "2013-03-04T14:24:48Z")
When you say a heavier aircraft glides further don’t you mean it requires a greater distance to descend due to it’s mass? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/71 "2013-03-04T14:52:57Z")
I took a couple of trial lessons a number of years back. The first time, I just did without any warm up or anything and the instructor had me land it, with giving corrective moves on his controls. I have no idea how good/bad I was. The second time, after a couple of tries I sorta got the hand of it, and while the instructor kept his hands on his controls (a reasonably prudent move, its his plane, after all) he said that the landings were all mine. So I can see how a four hour class could help someone. That all said, this was with a live, functioning instructor next to me ready to jump in. Had he had a heart attack, I would be freaking out. Hell, I’d be freaking out even if I didn’t have to land the plane. The funniest thing was after I got back home and I was telling the others at the company about the trip. The accounting manager opined that flying must be easier than driving a car. WTF? So I asked why and she said that because you don’t have to make lane changes, it must be easier. She was just getting her driver’s license and that was the toughest part for her. Come to think about it, no parallel parking, either. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/72 "2013-03-04T15:30:45Z")
We use to have an instructor in our area (think he was an original Tuskegee Airman) who had a reputation for teaching a student everything they needed to know in 1 hr. Basically it’s what I said upthread. If you can learn that airspeed is controlled by pitch and altitude is controlled by power then you can drive just about any plane to a runway and walk away. Doesn’t mean it’s going to be pretty but goes back to the old adage: any landing you can walk away from is a good one. From a low time pilot’s perspective, I use to be intimidated by constant speed props. But now I know I can just push everything to the firewall and fly the plane down normally if I had to take over in an emergency. A little knowledge goes a long way. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/73 "2013-03-04T19:10:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When you say a heavier aircraft glides further don’t you mean it requires a greater distance to descend due to it’s mass? Isn’t that the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/74 "2013-03-04T21:49:32Z")
Ya’ll know we have at least some (simulator-based) data on smart, vehicle experienced, but non-pilots landing big passenger jets? _Mythbusters_ stuck Adam and Jamie for two tries each in a simulator (the real-deal, actual cabin that moves, kind, not a PC running microsoft). Starting level flight at whatever thousand feet each time. First try they had no help, and each of them more or less promptly created a nice memorial crater. Second try, they had an experienced pilot trainer on the other end of the radio, and both of them managed an everybody-walks-away landing (not just an everybody-is-probably-pulled-from-the-wreckage-alive landing). I think this was even manually landing it; with a fancy auto-landing plane it’s even easier. So, I’m not a pilot, but my guess is that if the plane is stable and you can get the radio working and someone talking to you, you’re better off staying there rather than looking for a chute. Not saying making your will is a bad idea in that case, but I wouldn’t make a bridge-burning last speech quite yet, either. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/75 "2013-03-05T01:20:30Z")
Well, now that you’ve mentioned autopilot, how much can Otto land the (a) plane by himself? Paradoxically, might the bigger planes with super-smart autopilots be safer for a hapless non-pilot pilot to land than small props? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/76 "2013-03-05T01:36:42Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Well, now that you’ve mentioned autopilot, how much can Otto land the (a) plane by himself? > > Paradoxically, might the bigger planes with super-smart autopilots be safer for a hapless non-pilot pilot to land than small props? It depends on the aeroplane. The Avro RJ that I fly can do an autoland but it takes some skill and knowledge to be able to get the aeroplane from the cruise to a point on the approach where it can land itself. I think I could talk someone through it but keep in mind that the pilots who fly them everyday can make mistakes and get it wrong. Someone who has never done it before will need everything going for them. All going well, the hardest bit should be braking after touchdown and taxiing back to the ramp. Some more modern aircraft have auto-brakes as well and a better flight management computer that can manage the descent as well as the approach. Basically the more modern the aeroplane, the better the chances of someone being able to program it to autoland. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/77 "2013-03-05T01:42:46Z")
Braking and taxiing? Pfft. And for taxiing I can just ask for a tow. Man, I gotta revisit this entire thread. ---
**Author:** ![TaoPilot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TaoPilot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaoPilot)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/78 "2013-03-05T01:54:49Z")
> [@Pixel\_Dent](#): > > Finally the OP asked if a flight school minds having someone come in for a single flight to see if they like it. I was just talking to an instructor and he mentioned he had a “discovery flight” that day. I commented that that must be one of the most fun parts of his job and he said, “Yeah, I actually get to fly.” Let me explain that. In order to get a job with even a small airline you have to have logged hundreds of hours. The cheapest way to do that is to work as a flight instructor where you can log hours you instructed even if you never touch the controls of the plane. So lots of guys get their ratings and then teach for a few years building up hours, but never flying all that much themselves. On a discovery flight the poor instructor doesn’t have to just sit there telling you what to do, he actually gets to make the takeoff and landing (although the student does do most of the flying in between). I can definitely agree, the discovery flights are some of the best, as I don’t get to do the flying all too often and those let me show off some landings! I let the student take off, however I am on the rudders and guarding the yoke pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/79 "2013-03-22T05:28:08Z")
A wonderfully detailed quick instruction to have handy on how to land a 737 with autopilot, richly illustrated with photographs and manual excerpts, [was just published on Quora.](http://www.quora.com/Aviation/What-should-I-do-if-the-pilot-passes-out-and-I-with-no-flight-training-have-to-land-the-plane#ans2193507) The thread is exactly the same as part of this one, on the “pilot’s dead, now what” scenario for average non-pilot Joe. I’d like to cross post this to a not-so-long-ago comment on Cecil column thread–but I’ll wait for a mod’s permission. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792/80 "2013-03-22T12:45:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Thinking about PC sims… > > I took a friend up in a helicopter once, and he insisted that he’d be able to fly it. He had a lot of hours playing a combat helicopter game. I told him if he tried it, he would die. > > This is the same guy who hung his leg out the door as I was taking off, pressing down on the collective. :rolleyes: I recall the news article about some kid, about 20 I think,who had been reading all the books on how to fly. He snuck onto a helicopter pad in the early morning to try what he had read about. He knew where the controls were, and the basic theory. Apparently he retained what he had read very well, because he got about 100 feet in the air before he lost control and started spinning around and then flipped sideways and killed himself, writing off (pulverising and burning) a very expensive helicopter in the process. As for the OP - the trick to flying, like many other activities, is to learn not to overcontrol. We’ve all done that in flight simulator, it’s a common problem when you start to skid in a car; it doesn’t respond fast enough, you yank harder, suddenly it starts to go that way, you yank twice as hard in the other direction then have to overcorrect back again until you might as well just let go… That was my experience learning to land a plane; the engines are on idle as you get to the runway, you want to bleed off the speed by slowly lifting the nose. Lift a bit too much, and you are 20 feet up not 5; push down too hard and you will prang onto the runway, maybe need a new prop, some new landing gear. Practice, practice… It’s not that difficult. As mentioned there are a bunch of switches that can do interesting things - flaps, trim, mags, carb heat… But most of these oddly enough are positioned so that you have to TRY to change them, an oops won’t do it. If the pilot was behaving himself, the airradio is tuned to the local ground control, or worst case, en route. (It’s been decades since I’ve flown, what is it - 121.5?) If you push to talk, and there are other airplanes around, someone should alert ground control and they’ll come on. Odds are they’ll come on rather than try to explain to a novice how to change frequencies, and then possibly lose contact. Landing is easier if they can direct you to a nice long runway. This way, you can land without worrying about running out of room. As mentioned, the main thing to learn is stall speed. Normal instinct if things don’t look good is to pull up, but you are better off hitting, say, the grass flying horizontal before the runway starts, at 60mph than hitting the runway pavement nose vertical from 100 feet. Don’t stall, don’t overcorrect. The goal is to survive, not to avoid damage to the plane. landing too soon or too late and having the equivalent of a car crash into a fence once you’re down and rolling - is survivable. Hitting the ground nose straight down from an altitude is not. Likely, the guidance will be to have the motor on moderate power until you are almost at the runway rather than risk pancaking in too early, if the runway is long enough. A proficient pilot can land a small Cessna in what, about 400 feet? A good runway for jets is thousands of feet. Even smaller airports have over 100-foot runways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-fly-an-airplane/651792.md?page=5)