How hard is it to fly an Airplane?

My first flight in a helicopter, a half-hour ‘intro lesson’, I was already a rated fixed-wing pilot. In the air, the instructor offered me the controls. I was able to fly straight-and-level. Then he told me to make a left turn. How do you turn an aircraft? Piece of cake. Left stick, left rudder, and a little back-pressure, right? Yeah, in an airplane. Helicopters fly differently from airplanes. They don’t have a rudder; they have an anti-torque rotor. So no pedals. You don’t use back-pressure to maintain altitude in a turn; you raise the collective. (Which increases torque, so you do need to adjust the pedals slightly.) And helicopters are much more sensitive to control inputs than a Skyhawk. The moves are subtle. So I ended up turning left, slowing down, and slewing.

On the drive home I went over the flight in my head, and realised flying a helicopter was a bit like a video game. Point the cyclic – gently – where you want to go, and the helicopter goes there. There’s a lot more to it than that, but I learned on that first lesson (or on the drive home, actually) not to over-control. When I started my actual training, I had no problem on my first lesson flying straight-and-level or turning.

Like someone mentioned above, the Mythbusters did a good episode on this. One interesting aspect was the guy running the simulator/talking them down. Adam and Jamie were having a good time. You could see the guy was nervous and about to stroke out. Probably because in his mind, this wasnt a game and each time there was a crash he/they had probably killed hundreds of people.

Flying is easy. Landing is hard.

Seriously, level flight is a lot like driving, except that you have 4 variables to control rather than two (pitch, yaw, roll, and speed) rather than two (direction and speed).

The tricky case is soaring, where speed is controlled by pitch. It’s pretty easy to maintain all the other items, as they’re pretty normal 1st-order results of the controls (or 2nd order, depending on how you count).

But with soaring, in addition to generally keeping the pitch level (nose pointed towards the horizon), you also have to maintain the speed to your craft’s optimum glide speed. Going too fast? nose up a little until it’s back in the green, then level off. By itself this isn’t hard, but the first time (esp if you’re not already a pilot) it’s a bit of a challenge to do this while keeping the other two steady.

Turns are simple enough if you simply understand the idea to bank as you turn (roll and yaw at the same time). The instrument panel has a widget that tells you if you’re banking too much or not enough – basically like a curved level. Again, it’s just a bit trickier in a sailplane due to keeping the speed steady.

The good news is you can try this for yourself, even on a sailplane. Look in your area for a sailplane club, which will have a rural airstrip. Most offer 15 or 20 minute rides for a small fee. I did and it was the best $15 I can remember spending (back in the 70’s … it’s more than that now!) Of course, that’ll be in a two-seater, with a qualified pilot.

I love Mythbusters, but this one they overlooked probably the one biggest factor if the scenario happened in real life - which is (not to understate it) the fear of creating a big smoking hole in which hundreds of people die all as a result of your actions. The stress levels. The elevated adrenalin.

Sure, maybe you can land a plane with some coaching as you’re sitting there in a simulator nice and comfy, where nothing happens if you crash, and in fact a crash would make for good TV, so no real stress there. Put a couple of hundred people behind you, all dependent on you for their survival, and things will change dramatically. Yes, I know airline sim sessions can be stressful too, but it’s not the same.

Although I am not a jet pilot, I am a pilot and flight instructor. I’ve had a few emergency situations, and seen others reactions to stress as well as my own. Even having been trained on what to do, it’s amazing how the brain is affected by stress - reasoning, logic, simple mental tasks sometimes go completely out the window. People do strange things under stress - push the wrong button, read a gauge wrong, shut down the good engine instead of the one on fire, that kind of stuff. Which is why pilots and airline crews train, train, train for this sort of thing so they can rely on almost automatic responses.

I don’t think an otherwise untrained non-pilot really has much of a chance of pulling off a nice, “smooth” landing like Jamie and Adam did on Mythbusters. I think just impacting the ground somewhere on the airport property would be pretty amazing.

My helicopter piloting experience is limited to MS flight sim, but I believe that a typical helicopter does have pedals, and as long as you’re moving forward at a decent clip, does fly a lot like a plane.

The pedals control the rear rotor, affecting yaw, just as the pedals on a plane control yaw via the rudder.

In a turn, you bank using the collective (similar to the stick on a plane), and control the pitch the same way. But yes you do have that other control (the collective) and you may need to compensate for a loss of lift with extra pitch on the rotor blades. My (fake) experience is, if you’re going fast enough and not too low to the ground, you can leave the collective alone, and use pitch to compensate for loss of lift (just as with a plane).

Of course, any time you adjust the collective, you have to compensate the yaw that creates using the pedals.

I’m still at loss on how to hover.

I explained to my wife that I needed to learn to land a helicopter in case we were ever on a tourist heli ride and the pilot collpases. Then she watched me crash into the Parthenon, and swore she’d never get into a copter with me.

NM, double post.

Another thing I wanted to add to my points about the Mythbusters episode, is that, by the time they were being coached, they already had some experience flying the plane, by virtue of the previous uncoached run. This undoubtedly gave them at least a little bit of a leg up versus starting “cold”, as they already had some idea of where the controls were and what they did.

My helicopter experience is limited to flying helicopters. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, helicopters have pedals. (I didn’t say they didn’t.) But they function differently from they way they do in fixed-wing aircraft. The pedals are called ‘anti-torque pedals’, and they control the anti-torque rotor (usually called the ;tail rotor’). The purpose of the tail rotor is to counteract the torque created when the engine is powering the rotor system. They don’t really play a part in turns, like a rudder does. As I said, you adjust the pedals in a coordinated turn because you change power settings. (The throttle is at the end of the collective lever, and is connected with a correlator so that power is automatically adjusted when the collective is moved. The correlator can be switched off, which makes a student work harder, but which also aids the student in developing manual control skills.) The tail rotor is also used to trim the aircraft in flight so that you’re not crabbing. (There’s a piece of yarn on the windscreen so that you can see if you’re crabbing.) But in turns, the tail rotor is not really used in the same way as it is in airplanes. FWIW, common control inputs for an airplane are exactly the wrong ones to use in a helicopter. For example, if your nose is high in an airplane you push over. Do this too quickly and too much in a helicopter with a semi-rigid rotor system, and it’s possible to chop your tail boom off. Such a condition is considered sub-optimal.

Hovering: Remember that each control causes two reactions. All you have to do to hover is to use the collective to keep the helicopter at a given height, use the pedals to keep the nose pointed in the right direction, use the cyclic to keep the helicopter over your chosen spot, use the throttle to adjust for changes in the position of the collective, use the pedals to adjust for changes in the throttle setting, and use the cyclic to adjust for drift caused by the tail rotor. Piece of cake.

What you said was:

Saying “So no pedals” tends to encourage folks to conclude that you believe helicopters have no pedals.

Ah. I see. What I meant was ‘no pedals [used in the turn]’.

I flew Schweizer 2-33 sailplanes in Fremont (or rather, over Fremont) at Sky Sailing Airport in the mid-70’s, back when Sky Sailing was located there. We had decidedly low-tech, but entirely effective, widgets to tell you if you’re banking too much or not enough. It consisted of a short piece of string, maybe 6" long, taped to the outside front of the cockpit windshield. If it blew to the left or to the right during a turn (or even going straight ahead), you’re not flying coordinated. If it blew straight back, neither left nor right, then you were right on.

Some 2-33 photos, from a google image search:
http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/11677/Nl30631.jpg
http://www.elpasosoaring.org/Images/SGS%202-33.JPG
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Schweizer2-33/IMAGES/2-33-landing.jpg (landing, with spoilers out).
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6206/6118862876_c059156969_z.jpg

And here it is! I found a photo of the string on the windshield!

Anybody here remember the short film Dawn Flight, circa mid-1970’s, that was shown in movie theaters before the main feature? The two 2-33’s in that film were the same two that I flew.

There is a youtube video of a dude landing a cessna fairly well with no experience other than many hours using MS FS. A CFI was aboard and ready to grab the yoke, but he gave little advice. The dude did well actually.

As one with a couple hundred hours in puddle jumpers 20 years ago, I feel I could still take off and land a small airplane. But in the classic scenario of “the pilot is dead you must land the Big Jet” probably not.

People keep saying a novice pilot couldn’t land a commercial airliner but in my ignorance I don’t see a problem putting one done successfully. They have a tremendous glide range and there is no requirement to establish a traditional approach with all the hardware deployed. If you can get the gear down then there shouldn’t be a problem finding a long runway with open space at the end. If you can get the wheels down then it’s just a matter of walking it down to the beginning of the runway and waving goodbye to the brakes as you burn them up. It doesn’t have to be a great landing it just has to be good enough to walk away. If the thrust reversers aren’t that hard to engage then all the better. That could be done by someone in the right seat.

An airplane is an airplane.

Better be thinking about mass, response times, visual clues & “It is real.”

Better be way out in front of it from the get-go.

Wx sucks everyplace except St. Martian, the original destination and you are only 20 minutes out with an hours reserve.

You as good as Sully?
Gonna try for the runway?
You have a 12k Foot runway in Kansas.? Do you know how really short that is without a properly set up big bird?

Yes, you got to try, but are in rough air with a cross wind and nobody on the radio has a clue about a 7XX airplane, the passengers are screaming & everything you do makes a light flash and a horn sound, sometimes just normally.

Yeah, you will try, but…

At a huge airport with a perfect wind & flight condition, with an experienced 7XX pilot in the tower who can see what you are doing in the last couple of miles plus have a feel for you after the last hour of trying to work you through it, A big maybe.

Most little plane drivers like us have prolly thought about it.

Go learn to fly a C-140, Taylor craft, Piper Cub. Get conformable with it.

No go up in an T-6, first flight and try to land with no help…

But we have to try, have to believe we can or we would not even think to try.

Do the front seat guys still get different food at meals? They try real hard to not have both go down at the same time.

An airplane is an airplane until it isn’t or they get close to the ground.

I might be interesting in taking you up on that. I’m guessing you’re in or near Wichita Falls. I’ve never had the opportunity to fly in a private plane.

heavens no. I’m not even as good as I think I am.

actually I went from a 2 seat trainer to a 6 seat twin and greased it in on the first try. I had help with the power settings but could have handled that myself if I had to. In the event shit happens you just push all the controls forward and keep the airspeed in the numbers. I think the reason I’m intrigued with the idea is the story of the 757 that was dead-sticked onto a deserted runway. The PIC cross controlled it on final to get it down.

I have to believe the pucker factor would be unmeasurable. I’ve been in a couple of serious emergencies while in the right seat and glad the guy in the left seat new what he was doing.

I hear you… But, if you do not skip the throttles on a piston aircraft, you’ll not likely be able to keep it on the numbers. If the engine or engines are dead in a piston aircraft, & you are looking at a forced landing, putting every thing fwd is not the right thing to do at all.

A large airport runway is 20 or 30 times longer than a small cessna needs to land. (5000 feet vs. 300 feet.) I’d rather be landing a cessna than a large jet.

Plus, most big jets have thrust reversers because brakes just don’t do the job well. My guess is they’d talk the guy into doing circles unless there’s a critical problem, or talk him how to dump the fuel (but, not all of it!!). Then he’d land , probably not stop in time or veer off the runway at speed - but hopefully the prang is not too bad, and everyone gets out and nothing burns. Again, a crash as in “we’re going 100mph and the gear caught in the grass and folded” …is a fairly survivable incident if nothing cathes fire. With brakes, throttle, thrust reversers, etc. there’s a lot to do in a short time - correctly - on touchdown.

There was a case in the Maldives(?) IIRC where hijackers diverted a big jet. It ran out of fuel short of the airport, they tried to ditch in the ocean 100 yards from shore. The engine caught the water and the thing spun and broke up, but a lot of people survived. (Those that did not, a lot died of drowning before the beach crowd reached them). A horizontal stop is so much more survivable than a vertical one.

Not true at all. The brakes are just fine, in fact the landing performance data that is used to check whether a given runway can be used on a given day ONLY considers wheel brakes and lift spoilers. Any reverse thrust that is used is a bonus that improves the slow-down beyond what is planned.

Yes and no. I fly two types that are very similar (identical airframes but improved systems on one). The BAe146 has no auto-land and no thrust reversers. When you land you have to very firmly pull the thrust levers back to ground idle, get the lift spoilers out and apply the brakes. The spoilers are very effective, if you forget them it literally feels like you’ve had a brake failure, in fact the first item to check in case of a brake failure is that the spoilers are deployed. In addition, the autopilot is very basic and the aeroplane needs to be flown all the way to the ground. It is high workload on autopilot and high workload when manually flown. I would not rate any passenger’s chances in landing it successfully. On the other hand, the Avro RJ has the same airframe with the addition of a much more functional autopilot, it has autoland, autospoilers, and autothrottle. You can fly it from the cruise to landing all on automatics and the workload is quite low. To do an autoland you just have to get it on to an ILS which can be programmed in to the flight management computer. As long as the ILS radio frequencies are correct and the two course bars are set correctly only one button needs to be pushed to cause the aeroplane to capture the ILS at the appropriate time. Autoland will then happen automatically, if you don’t disengage the autopilot, the aeroplane will land itself, the thrust will automatically go to ground idle, and the spoilers will automatically deploy. The only thing the pilot has to do is apply the brakes and use the tiller to steer once you get below about 60 knots.

Larger, more modern jets, have all the good stuff the RJ has but they also have auto-brakes. They can land, deploy spoilers, keep rolling straight down the centre-line, and apply brakes all automatically.

Incidentally, a major factor in the drowning of those who did not survive was that they inflated their life jackets before they got out of the aeroplane. Then as the cabin filled with water they were unable to swim down to the exits and were stuck floating up near the ceiling. In the emergency brief the cabin crew give you, they will say “only inflate your life jacket as you exit the aircraft”. That’s not just random fluffy words, they are very important.

OK, I’ll take your word for it. I do recognize that their primary purpose (and the biggest movements) are to counteract torque. However, they can be used like the rudder. I remember reading that during level flight, they can be used to adjust direction (just as with rudder) when the correction is small. And they seem work fine to help produce a coordinated turn, in MSFS. It doesn’t make sense to me that you wouldn’t adjust yaw as well as roll during a turn, and that you don’t adjust the yaw using the collective as the primary control (though any change to the collective does affect yaw by changing torque, as you pointed out).

Anyway, you’re a real pilot; I’ve only played with toys.

Well, that NEVER happened to me in MSFS, so it can’t possibly be true! :wink:

Yeah, I understand the concept and know what I’m supposed to be doing. It’s possible that my controls weren’t the ideal. I’ve had pilots say that MSFS can be a lot harder to fly than a real craft, largely thanks to things like latency and poor responsiveness. But still, my hat’s off to anyone who can hover, let alone do it in windy conditions in tight spaces, as we’ve seen SAR and military pilots do!

Right! I think I remember seeing a yarn on the canopy of the Blanik I flew, in the 70’s. As a sailor, I’m familiar with their use to trim a jib. I’m kinda surprised I never put any on my windsurfer sails, but perhaps that’s because I can tell what the wind is doing to the sail by the way it pulls. Far moreso than on a plane or sailboat, you can really feel the immediate effect of any tiny twitch (of sail handling or of wind), on a windsurfer. You’re plugged right in, part of the craft. Especially when you misjudge and get hammered, or worse, catapulted! (This gives you a clue why I prefer windsurfing as a hobby to flying – failure isn’t catastrophic!)