# How hard is the concept "Emergency Exit"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2007, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464 "2007-02-09T05:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/61 "2007-02-11T14:26:23Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] It’s not contrapositive, or if it is, it’s illicit. What’s more, it has undetermined truth value. I still want to say you’ve added another premise. It’s not just If A then B, If not B than not A There is a C in your statement. (building with stupid layout) All C are non A therefore you get If A then B All C are non A Which is an illicit contraposition. (Maybe, I’m new to this.) Either way, it’s fallacious. And illicit, and just plain not true. If I’m wrong, feel free to point out to me where, I am absolutely fascinated by logic. [/QUOTE] You are confused by the difference between natural language and logical notation. The phrase “a building with a stupid layout” is equivalent to “there is not a good reason for these several features.” Thus it fits the definition of the inverse of B, called “not B”. Also, English word order is sometimes different from a logical “if… then” statement. I originally said, “Right, I forgot that there’s never been a building in the history of the human race with a stupid layout.” This sentence can be reworded to more closely resemble a logical statement while retaining the same essential meaning. The result (leaving out the sarcasm) would be something like, “If there was not a good reason for a particular layout, then no building would have that layout.” Hence, “If not B then not A.” A statement does not have to have a determined truth value before you perform logical operations on it. Regular algebra lets you deal with unknown real numbers; likewise Boolean algebra lets you deal with unknown values that are either true or false. ---
**Author:** ![Alpine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpine/32/17813_2.png) [@Alpine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpine)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/62 "2007-02-11T15:32:58Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] Maybe the Biohazard sign. Or “Beware of Dog.” [/QUOTE] Or some of that “Police Line - Do Not Cross” tape. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/63 "2007-02-12T12:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=Dante] By the way, your argument is what is know as a logical fallacy. See if you can figure out which one! [/QUOTE] Dante, your argument was a logical fallacy if your conclusion was “There is a reason for the door to be there”. Specifically it was Appeal to Authority. If your conclusion was “There might be a reason for the door to be there” then it can be assumed true unless somebody can prove that there absolutely cannot be such a reason. The statement > [@](#): > > Right, I forgot that there’s never been a building in the history of the human race with a stupid layout. made by sturmhauke is a **sarcastic** statement that is a reasonably correct rebuttal to your fallacious argument. It is assuming that “All buildings in the history of the human race were designed by humans” which is a reasonable assumption, and claims that “Some buildings designed by humans are not reasonable”. Your claim that it follows from the fact that humans designed the building that it is reasonable is refuted by the statement that there are buildings designed by humans that are not. The statement “All building designed by humans are reasonable” is contradictory to “At least one building designed by humans is not reasonable”, both cannot be true. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/64 "2007-02-12T13:57:25Z")
[QUOTE=groman] Dante, your argument \ both cannot be true. [/QUOTE] I did use the qualifier “might” in my original post, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at. And since it appears that **sturmhauke** is no slouch in the critical thinking department, I’ll retract the snark in my post, before I get my butt handed to me. To be honest, it sounds to me like the door is in a stupid place, and I suspect **OtakuLoki** hit the reason for it being there on the head. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/65 "2007-02-12T14:26:22Z")
[QUOTE=groman] Dante, your argument was a logical fallacy if your conclusion was “There is a reason for the door to be there”. Specifically it was Appeal to Authority. If your conclusion was “There might be a reason for the door to be there” then it can be assumed true unless somebody can prove that there absolutely cannot be such a reason. The statement made by sturmhauke is a **sarcastic** statement that is a reasonably correct rebuttal to your fallacious argument. It is assuming that “All buildings in the history of the human race were designed by humans” which is a reasonable assumption, and claims that “Some buildings designed by humans are not reasonable”. Your claim that it follows from the fact that humans designed the building that it is reasonable is refuted by the statement that there are buildings designed by humans that are not. The statement “All building designed by humans are reasonable” is contradictory to “At least one building designed by humans is not reasonable”, both cannot be true. [/QUOTE] Great, so now I have to go back to sexual favors to pass the class? ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/66 "2007-02-12T15:20:48Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] Great, so now I have to go back to sexual favors to pass the class? [/QUOTE] 'fraid so. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/67 "2007-02-12T22:55:11Z")
[QUOTE=Dante] And since it appears that **sturmhauke** is no slouch in the critical thinking department, I’ll retract the snark in my post, before I get my butt handed to me. [/QUOTE] Thank you sir. I wasn’t that interested in your butt anyway, I’ve already got one. ---
**Author:** ![Cyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@Cyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyn)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/68 "2007-02-13T03:06:23Z")
I work on a secured hospital floor with alarmed emergency exit doors. For visitors to get onto this floor, they have to obtain a pass from the security guards at the podium in the lobby located immediately upon getting off the elevator. There is a smaller set of elevators that have to be keyed, further into our unit. These elevators are painted an unappetizing gray/tan and have STAFF ONLY NOT FOR VISITOR USE stencils on the doors. In English and Spanish. At the end of our scary long hall, there is an emergency exit with large red signs saying ALARM WILL SOUND NOT AN EXIT in English and Spanish. There is a small stop sign placed in front of the door saying STOP ALARM WILL SOUND. How many times a week do _you_ think the alarm sounds? A Code Exit ( Infant abduction ) is called with every alarm triggered. Each RN counts her assigned babies personally and reports to our charge nurse. Other staff monitors all exits, closes off the unit and asks visitors to not leave the floor. Security verifies each RN has counted and only then disables the alarm, which is ear-splitting. The alarm stays on if the person going through the alarmed door refuses to be detained or if _anyone_ leaves the floor. How many times a week does hospital _staff_ trigger the alarm? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464/69 "2007-02-13T04:07:35Z")
[QUOTE=Cyn] How many times a week do _you_ think the alarm sounds? [/QUOTE] I’m guessing that most of the people who trigger the alarm aren’t, say, recent immigrants from Southeast Asia who speak neither English nor Spanish. I also have to wonder how often people try to sneak off with babies. Damn, the whole thing sounds like it sucks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-is-the-concept-emergency-exit/391464.md?page=3)