How hard is the concept "Emergency Exit"?

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
Yep. When I waited tables, the “Please Wait to Be Seated” sign by the door was frequently pushed aside (or knocked over) by customers stampeding in to seat themselves.
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I’ve got a few theories about why this is. You wanna hear them? (Of course you do!)

  1. People who ignore signs are people who dislike to read in general. In essence, they’re subconciously “avoiding words”.

  2. Advertising has numbed the brains of human beings to the sight of a sign. Signs, signs, everywhere are signs . . . People’s eyes skim over them because of it.

  3. Familiarity. People tend to read signs more in an enviornment with which they’re unfamiliar and uncertain of where to go or what to do. If they’ve been to the store (or one of its kajillion clones) a hundred times, they’re not going to really notice signs that have always hung there-- the sign, in a way, seems more like a decorative object.

42

[QUOTE=betenoir]
I do read the signs and I particulaly like the one the that says WARNING: DOOR IS ALARMED. I always want to go up and pat it and tell it everything will be ok.
[/QUOTE]
Heh. In my building, those signs have been gently removed and are now used to prop the emergency exits (who have no outside handles) open.

43

I can understand having an emergency door near the main doors if the main ones require electricity to operate correctly. I can’t understand why that emergency door needs to be hooked to an alarm. What possible safety purpose does that alarm serve? The only purpose I can think of is a negative one: by causing so many false alarms, it makes people less inclined to take alarms seriously.

Daniel

44

[QUOTE=tdn]
To further clarify, is there anything – ahem – “legal” about what’s above you?
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Crane Poole and Schmidt appears to be two blocks to the right, between Clarendon and Berkeley St.

Google Earth can’t zoom in quite far enough to see Alan and Denny on the balcony smoking cigars and drinking scotch though.

45

[QUOTE=Dante]
Illicit Obversion is correct.
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Well let’s break this down, shall we?

Let A = “there exists a certain structural feature in a certain location in a building”
Let B = “there is a good reason for this feature”
Let S(name) be a statement made by (name)

Your post can be stated as
S(Dante) = If A then B (If “an architect put the door there” then “there might actually be a reason we haven’t thought of”)

While mine can be stated as
S(sturmhauke) = If not B then not A (If “a building… with a stupid layout” then “there’s never been [one]”)

S(Dante) and S(sturmhauke) are contrapositives of each other. Either they are both true or they are both false. I was being sarcastic, and implying that I think S(sturmhauke) is false.

Specifically, I was thinking of this recent thread in which people complained of really stupid construction on their homes. I was also thinking of the parking garage at the Rincon Center in San Francisco. There are these strange concrete projections around all the support columns which make parking extremely difficult. While there may be some sort of seismic retrofit or something like that going on, it sharply limits my desire to use that garage.

46

[QUOTE=sturmhauke]
Well let’s break this down, shall we?

Let A = “there exists a certain structural feature in a certain location in a building”
Let B = “there is a good reason for this feature”
Let S(name) be a statement made by (name)

Your post can be stated as
S(Dante) = If A then B (If “an architect put the door there” then “there might actually be a reason we haven’t thought of”)

While mine can be stated as
S(sturmhauke) = If not B then not A (If “a building… with a stupid layout” then “there’s never been [one]”)

S(Dante) and S(sturmhauke) are contrapositives of each other. Either they are both true or they are both false. I was being sarcastic, and implying that I think S(sturmhauke) is false.

Specifically, I was thinking of this recent thread in which people complained of really stupid construction on their homes. I was also thinking of the parking garage at the Rincon Center in San Francisco. There are these strange concrete projections around all the support columns which make parking extremely difficult. While there may be some sort of seismic retrofit or something like that going on, it sharply limits my desire to use that garage.
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It’s not contrapositive, or if it is, it’s illicit. What’s more, it has undetermined truth value.

I still want to say you’ve added another premise. It’s not just

If A then B,

If not B than not A

There is a C in your statement. (building with stupid layout)

All C are non A

therefore you get

If A then B
All C are non A

Which is an illicit contraposition. (Maybe, I’m new to this.)

Either way, it’s fallacious. And illicit, and just plain not true.

If I’m wrong, feel free to point out to me where, I am absolutely fascinated by logic.

47

The reason an emergency is wired to sound an alarm when opened is so that people will be alerted to the fact that (1) something is going on; (2) they may need to begin leaving the premises and (3) the sound will guide them to where there is a push-open, non-electrically-operated exit.

And it is actually illegal to chain shut or block what is supposed to be the emergency exit.

The problem, however, is that people are constantly opening this door and sounding the alarm, so that when there is an actual emergency, people may not actually react and be alarmed and alerted at all.

48

Sounds like your “Emergency Exit” needs an extra warning: “Wet Paint - use other exit” or “Do Not Step In Wet Cement”

49

[QUOTE=DWMarch]
Crane Poole and Schmidt appears to be two blocks to the right, between Clarendon and Berkeley St.

Google Earth can’t zoom in quite far enough to see Alan and Denny on the balcony smoking cigars and drinking scotch though.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I think he was referring to the Legal Seafood at the Prudential Center, which was above the Shaw’s/Star Market until they built the new one over on Huntington and Ring Road where the OP apparently works.

50

[QUOTE=Aserrann]
Although, now that I think of it, why is there an emergency door at all?
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. What is the point of limiting a door at the front of the store to emergency use only? Why not just make a regular exit, which can be use in emergencies as well?

51

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Exactly. What is the point of limiting a door at the front of the store to emergency use only? Why not just make a regular exit, which can be use in emergencies as well?
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But.. but… they already paid for the sign! It’s not right!

52

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Exactly. What is the point of limiting a door at the front of the store to emergency use only? Why not just make a regular exit, which can be use in emergencies as well?
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Security, I’d imagine. If you have a lot of merchandise laying out in the open, you don’t want people being able to slip out the back door unnoticed. By making them walk past the registers and people up front, you’re at least able to see that they’re not carrying out a mound of your merchandise.

53

[QUOTE=Lissa]
Security, I’d imagine. If you have a lot of merchandise laying out in the open, you don’t want people being able to slip out the back door unnoticed.
[/QUOTE]
Read the OP again. The door in question is at the front of the store, beyond the registers, between two other normal exits.

54

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Read the OP again. The door in question is at the front of the store, beyond the registers, between two other normal exits.
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Ah. I see. Sorry about that.

55

Regardless of the emergency exit having a questionable placement, it is still marked emergency exit and is for exiting in emergencies only.

Arguing that peope are justified in going through it is fucking stupid. I don’t think the stop sign at the end of my street is well placed, so I should just ignore it.

56

[QUOTE=boytyperanma]
Regardless of the emergency exit having a questionable placement, it is still marked emergency exit and is for exiting in emergencies only.

Arguing that peope are justified in going through it is fucking stupid.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone has done this.

57

Fear Itself, I think you might want to reread this post.

As for those people who are suggesting taking the door and changing it’s status from being an emergency exit to being a regular exit, I’m not sure it’s that easy. Building code, AIUI, can get very abstruse, and the city of Boston might have a requirement for emergency exits based on square footage of the building, or length of walls, or any other generally reasonable formula - that in the case of this particular building, has left the store with no other choice but to add a generally superfluous, but required by code, emergency exit.

58

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
Fear Itself, I think you might want to reread this post.
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Ah. Missed that.

59

[QUOTE=According to Pliny]
Sounds like your “Emergency Exit” needs an extra warning: “Wet Paint - use other exit” or “Do Not Step In Wet Cement”
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Maybe the Biohazard sign. Or “Beware of Dog.”

60

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
As for those people who are suggesting taking the door and changing it’s status from being an emergency exit to being a regular exit, I’m not sure it’s that easy. Building code, AIUI, can get very abstruse, and the city of Boston might have a requirement for emergency exits based on square footage of the building, or length of walls, or any other generally reasonable formula - that in the case of this particular building, has left the store with no other choice but to add a generally superfluous, but required by code, emergency exit.
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My money’s on this. My father owns a store, and was required by code during a recent remodel to install an alarmed emergency door. Because of the layout of the building, the historic arcitecture restrictions and ADA restrictions, they had to install it only a few feet from their regular back door. That’s code for you.