# How hard would it have been to kill a king leading his troops into battle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 15, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533 "2022-02-15T14:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/41 "2022-02-17T03:35:28Z")
According to Shakespeare’s Henry IV Part 1, at the Battle of Shrewsbury in 1403, many fighters were disguised as Henry IV to divert attention from him: “The king hath many marching in his coats.” I tried googling this to see if there are any factual references to it, but can’t find any. Shakespeare fictionalized much of his account of the battle, and omitted the future Henry V’s arrow wound, referred to above by @jnglmassiv in post #26 And adding to @Slithy_Tove and post # 10 “Apocryphal addenda to the two posts above: Young Lt Col and future Supreme Court Justice yelled “get down you fool!” at Lincoln.” The future Supreme Court Justice who yelled “get down you fool!” at Lincoln was Oliver Wendell Holmes. About the Bayeux tapestry’s depiction of the death of Harold Godwinson, some say that the arrow to the eye is not literal but symbolic of his treachery, which would have been understood by 11th Century viewers of the tapestry. One commentator says that our taking it literally now would be like future generations looking back at our internet and wondering from Twitter screenshots if it was powered by trained birds carrying messages. > **[The Bayeux Tapestry seems a bit vague. Did Harold die from the arrow his eye,...](https://www.quora.com/The-Bayeux-Tapestry-seems-a-bit-vague-Did-Harold-die-from-the-arrow-his-eye-or-was-he-hacked-down-by-the-Norman-knights)** > > Answer (1 of 5): The famous Battle of Hastings in 1066 and the legendary defeat of King Harold II of England by William, Duke of Normandy, later to be known as William the Conqueror. This marked the end of the Anglo-Saxon rule over England. > > The... ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/42 "2022-02-17T13:52:11Z")
From what I recall on maybe a previous thread, shooting at the king and other ‘higher up’s’ was in general simply not done (often) as that could easily be used to have the enemy shoot your king and other ‘up’s’. It was an early form of mutually assured destruction that make kings a rare target. Also if a person was shooting at the king it might even get the man disciplined or worse for this very reason, they are putting their king at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/43 "2022-02-17T14:59:28Z")
One thing to add: during the Middle Ages, a good source of income for a ruler was the ransom attained by capturing high-ranking officers and nobles on a battlefield. Richard I was held by the Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI who “purchased” him from Leopold, Duke of Austria, who had captured Richard as he returned from Crusade. The cost to the English people was literally a king’s ransom: 100,000 pounds of silver. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/44 "2022-02-17T15:44:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > As you see by the accompanying picture, he did lead an attack, but not by running in front of a bunch of troops against another bunch of troops to start a battle, which is the historic cliche being referred to. I often find battle diagrams confusing. What exactly do you believe the image you attached shows? Because Alexander’s name appears behind the white square w/ the diagonal, does that mean that he was positioned behind them? I guess I just sorta assumed that the name was identifying his general location. And once the attack took place as demonstrated by the large blue arrow, it sure seems as tho he would be in the think of things - instead of cowering back in “CAMP”. But, like I said, I generally find such diagrams somewhat confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/45 "2022-02-17T16:47:44Z")
The quoted paragraph explains the course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/46 "2022-02-17T16:51:54Z")
So you are somehow making a distinction because he led a charge following the initial clash, as opposed to being the first guy in front during the initial contact? The paragraph seems to indicate that the Persians attacked. Seems A would have been limited in his ability to dictate exactly where the enemy chose to attack. **"I’m over here! Fight ME!"** ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/47 "2022-02-17T17:16:59Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > About the Bayeux tapestry’s depiction of the death of Harold Godwinson, some say that the arrow to the eye is not literal but symbolic of his treachery, which would have been understood by 11th Century viewers of the tapestry. All of this supports @bump’s initial post, stating that the sources are unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/48 "2022-02-17T18:03:35Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > All of this supports @bump’s initial post, stating that the sources are unreliable. I recall reading (possibly here) how little contemporaneous documentation exists for so much of accepted history. For example, I think Alexander’s Granicus lacked much in the way of contemporaneous records. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/49 "2022-02-17T20:05:06Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The quoted paragraph explains the course of action. The quoted paragraph seems to support **Dissonance** ’s description of the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/50 "2022-02-17T22:48:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > As you see by the accompanying picture, he did lead an attack, but not by running in front of a bunch of troops against another bunch of troops to start a battle, which is the historic cliche being referred to. Unless you are requiring him to literally set out alone on foot at a dead run from the center of the battlefield without bothering to employ any tactics or strategy, this is exactly what he did. The normal deployment on ancient battlefields was the infantry in the center, the cavalry on the flanks. He personally led the charge of his elite Companion cavalry from the start of the battle all of the way to the end of the battle, first winning the fight on the flank against the Persian cavalry and then the battle as a whole by moving against the center. The cavalry was what in modern military parlance would be termed the _schwerpunkt_ or the point of decision, which he personally led, from the front, something he did in all of the battles he fought in his conquest of what was the entire known world of the time to classical Greece. This rather disproves your statement that > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But leading from the front isn’t a sound way to wield an army. That was exactly the way Alexander led his army, all of the time, and not only conquered the known world, but never once lost a battle while doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/51 "2022-02-17T23:33:15Z")
Your own cite says he led some troops, but did not lead his army. That’s the one and only distinction that I’m making. I don’t understand how this ever got to be an issue in the first place. The answer to the question the OP gave, whether kings were killed leading their armies into battle, is mainly no, even given all of history to sort through. A simple “no” never seems to not satisfy posters. They immediately started talking about kings who weren’t killed, or weren’t killed in battle, or weren’t leading armies, or weren’t even kings. I get it. That’s the way the internet works. But those are different topics which allow for different answers. None of them are answers to the OP or refutations of “no.” And neither is Alexander. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/52 "2022-02-23T23:44:37Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > **Crown Prince** Henry, later Henry V ([Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_V_of_England)), was shot in the face by an arrow while leading troops in 1403 and, amazingly, made a full recovery. This 10 minute clip reenacts the injury, surgery and brilliant tool design and manufacture. The video quality is so-so but the content is great. That fellow at 3 minutes in used to be on TV a fair bit talking about medieval warfare, seems to know his stuff. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/53 "2022-02-23T23:55:06Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The answer to the question the OP gave, whether kings were killed leading their armies into battle, is mainly no, even given all of history to sort through. Parsing is all part of the 'dope experience, and I think the actual title (which is always the question I think the OP wants answered) isn’t whether kings lead troops in battle (and the word army isn’t even in there) but how hard it would have been to kill a king who was leading his troops in battle. All the side digression about who was or wasn’t a king or which watery bint tossed a saber at them is beside the point of what the OP was asking. Even if it was only one king in history who ever lead his troops (nothing about armies) in battle it can be answered without getting into all that other stuff. See? Parsing. It’s the heart of the 'dope. 😉 ETA: And the correct answer is…it depends. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/54 "2022-02-23T23:57:52Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Your own cite says he led some troops, but did not lead his army. That’s the one and only distinction that I’m making. I don’t understand this distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/55 "2022-02-24T01:06:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Frankly, that record suggests a king’s castle was the most dangerous place for him, not the battlefield. William I had a near miss - he was wounded, unhorsed and very nearly killed by his eldest son Robert in a skirmish in 1079. Purportedly Robert backed off only when he recognized his father’s voice. Which, y’know, maybe. So did Henry II campaigning in Wales in 1157 when his army was ambushed and routed. In France Philip II was unhorsed and nearly killed in an infantry assault on his position at Bouvines. If he had died Bouvines would likely have been lost and European history would have at least temporarily taken a left-turn (no Magna Carta?). Philip VI of France wasn’t leading from the front (or he likely would have died), but he did get caught in the fighting at Crecy, had two horses killed from under him and took an arrow in the jaw. There are certainly others. It wasn’t common, even the early Middle Ages. But it wasn’t quite rare either. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/56 "2022-02-24T01:32:51Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > > [@bump](#): > > > > Lore has it that he was struck in the eye by a Norman arrow, but there’s no actual proof, and the sources are unreliable. > > Unreliable? C’mon, [it’s right there on the tapestry!](https://www.bayeuxmuseum.com/en/the-bayeux-tapestry/discover-the-bayeux-tapestry/explore-online/#explore) (Scroll along the bottom to 2 dots past #55). > [@Teuton](#): > > There’s a fair suggestion that Harold is actually the guy just to the right there getting the chop from a sword. > It’s not even a tapestry. True, it’s an embroidery. And the arrow was probably not an original feature. An engraving of the work made in 1729 does not include it. It was added during later repairs. Probably. ([wiki cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry#Mysteries)) And the guy with the arrow in his eye clearly isn’t dead. If it is an arrow at all. So there’s little reason to think that Harold died from an arrow to the eye. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/57 "2022-05-14T20:51:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did opposing forces avoid shooting at officers during the Civil War? See above, > [@How hard would it have been to kill a king leading his troops into battle?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/9): > > Abraham Lincoln had a brush with death in 1864 when he went to inspect the battle at Fort Stevens. He got within range of Confederate snipers and a man next to him was shot. It’s possible that the soldiers shooting at him knew who he was, and tried to kill him, but just missed. > **[Abraham Lincoln’s Battlefield Brush with Death | HISTORY](https://www.history.com/news/lincolns-battlefield-brush-with-death)** > > At the Battle of Fort Stevens, Abraham Lincoln came within feet of being shot by a Confederate sniper. > Lincoln had always been a hands-on commander-in-chief, even personally test-firing rifles on the grassy expanses around the White House. Still, Confederate sharpshooters probably could not have believed their eyes when during the first afternoon of the Battle of Fort Stevens a lanky, bearded man in a dark suit and stovepipe hat emerged on the fort’s earthen parapets. > > Discouraged by the elaborate defenses that had been erected and concerned about his tired soldiers wilting in the blistering heat, Early had held back on a major assault, but Confederate snipers trained to hit targets from distances of 800 yards or more were firing shots from perches in trees, cornfields and houses. One of those shots rang out and came close to striking the president, who was standing on the parapet surveying the enemy in the line of fire. > > As John Hay, Lincoln’s private secretary, noted in his diary that night, ”A soldier roughly ordered him to get down or he would have his head knocked off.” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/58 "2022-05-14T21:16:46Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Once a sharp shooter across a field can specifically target the king with a projectile no armor can stop, you really don’t want him out there. Actually, I really do want him out there. All of them.As a way to encourage peace ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/59 "2022-05-15T00:25:47Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > As John Hay, Lincoln’s private secretary, noted in his diary that night, ”A soldier roughly ordered him to get down or he would have his head knocked off.” And that officer was Oliver Wendell Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hard-would-it-have-been-to-kill-a-king-leading-his-troops-into-battle/959533/60 "2022-05-15T01:04:21Z")
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