# How hardy is the A-10? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464 "2003-03-27T04:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/1 "2003-03-27T04:43:50Z")
I recall hearing from my more military-minded friends in days gone past about the wonders of the Warthog. How it could be successfully landed with only one operational engine and half of its control surface gone, etc. Anyways, with the huge sandstorm that was reported yesterday, and today’s reports of a column of Iraqi armor heading towards our boys, I was wondering how effective they would be at this point in time. Would the 60-mph gusts and flying grit make it too difficult for A-10s to be effectively deployed, or could they weather the storm like it was another day at the office? ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/2 "2003-03-27T05:41:58Z")
Well, if the 60 mph winds are at the base where the A-10s (or anything else) is deployed, then NOTHING is taking off or landing. If the sandstorm is raging over the Iraqi column, then it depends, but I’m betting that nothing gets dropped on the Iraqis. The precision weapons being used have three basic types of guidance: GPS, laser or TV. The GPS guided weapons are used against fixed targets - the bomb has the lat/long coordinates of its target stored in its memory and it uses GPS to steer to that point. To hit a moving tank you have to constantly update the bomb with the tank’s new position - and getting that information as accurately and as timely as needed is not doable. The laser and TV guided bombs rely on being able to see their target - either through the reflection of a laser or TV. Huge columns of blowing sand diffuse lasers and oscure TV cameras. The last, most fun weapon on the A-10 is that big gun up front - but once again your target can’t be hidden inside a swirling sandstorm. The A-10 is a tough airplane, but it was not designed as an all-weather attack airplane (like the F-15E). It was designed as a day, VFR attack airplane - meaning that you can see the enemy and THEY can see YOU. Thus the chances of getting shot up are greater in an A-10 than in an F-15E which comes in at night and 550 mph. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Mook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Mr.Mook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Mook)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/3 "2003-03-27T05:56:27Z")
But it is an amazing aircraft. the pilot sits in a titanium “bathtub,” right? The pilots seem to have a real affection for this craft, kind of like the old P-47 Thunderbolt, which also had a great rep for taking a beating and still getting her pilots home. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Mook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Mr.Mook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Mook)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/4 "2003-03-27T06:06:04Z")
I think there are real-life creatures alive now that have just as far-fetched habits and/or survival styles as those bat creatures in the movie, e.g. some of those freakazoid deep sea creatures, or 17 year locusts, or the birds that clean the crocodiles’ teeth, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/5 "2003-03-27T06:06:26Z")
I don’t doubt the A-10 could fly through those conditions, though the dust would be rough on the engines - the problem is that the pilot couldn’t see the tanks, and dust obscures laser, TV and infrared guidance, and since tanks tend to move around, that makes GPS bombs, the only type that doesn’t need to see the target, useless, as GPS bombs are only effective on stationary targets. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Mook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Mr.Mook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Mook)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/6 "2003-03-27T06:08:24Z")
Oops:smack: :wally Sorry about that. Wrong thread. This one belongs in the “Pitch Black” thread. Don’t know what the etiquette here is - ask a mod to delete? ---
**Author:** ![Rockford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@Rockford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rockford)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/7 "2003-03-27T06:22:58Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/8 "2003-03-27T11:49:19Z")
As a [sim-plane](http://www.5star-shareware.com/Games/Flight/a10-cuba.html), it’s one of my favourite to fly. I like to see how bad I can get shot up and still make it back. 😉 As a side-note, the A-10 is also built so you can fix it easily. The engines, stabilizers, and gear are symmetrical, so you need fewer parts to fix them. The gun has (had?) two rates of fire: 2,100 rpm. or 4,200 rpm, but I heard that someone decided that if you’re going to shoot somebody, you may as well be shooting them lots, so they got rid of the low setting. Here’s some nice [pictures](http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_service/aircraft/a10_thunderbolt/pics/pics.htm) of some. At the bottom of [this](http://www.desertcombat.com/) page you can see the size of the main cannon. ---
**Author:** ![Sebhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Sebhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sebhal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/9 "2003-03-27T13:23:30Z")
I believe I’m right in saying that the engines are positioned where they are to make them harder to hit from in front and below the aircraft (i.e. where the target’s going to be). This would mean that the engines would be one of the last things to be hit. > [@](#): > > At the bottom of this page you can see the size of the main cannon. You wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of that, would you! N. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/10 "2003-03-27T13:30:02Z")
wow, talk about a phallic symbol ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/11 "2003-03-27T13:57:41Z")
Yep, the A-10 is not an airplane. It is a big ass gun with wings. When they fire that cannon, the plane actually staggers in the air. Funny thing is, I heard from GW1 that they didn’t take out any tanks with the cannon, they used Hellfire missiles. The only time they used the cannon in GW1 was to take out a helicopter. Not sure if the story is true but I heard it awhile back. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/12 "2003-03-27T16:34:55Z")
[You’re right](http://www.afrc.af.mil/hq/citamn/dec02/aircraftdisplay.html), **Fugazi** : > [@](#): > > The historic mission occurred Feb. 6, 1991. Swain, who was then a captain, was on his third and final bomb run of the day in the skies over Iraq when he spotted two enemy helicopters. One of the helicopters landed safely. Swain zeroed in on the other. > > Once he verified that he was dealing with an enemy aircraft, he dropped his A-10 down to an altitude of 5,000 feet and took aim with his Gatling gun. The helicopter was able to avoid the first blast of 30 mm rounds, but the second attempt was on the mark. > > “On the second pass, I fired a long burst of 30 mm rounds, and the helicopter looked like I’d hit it with a bomb,” Swain said. “He flew right through the rounds and disintegrated.” ---
**Author:** ![Jimson\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@Jimson\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimson_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/13 "2003-03-27T17:03:18Z")
I’ve seen the A-10 “live fire” several times. About 15 years ago the Indiana Air National Guard used the artillery impact area at Camp Atterbery as a gunnery range. After my unit would finish it’s artillery live fires the A-10’s would come in. You could see them very clearly from the wash racks. We’d be washing down our M-110’s and you’d see A-10 let loose on a ground target. The plane vertullay stopped and almost disapeared in cloud of smoke. Than plane is a fearful weapon. All that a side, 60 mph winds packed with sand, visibility has got to be about 10 feet if that inside the storm. The polit would have to fly into the target to see it, seeing as how the distance from the polit to the gun barrel is almost 10 feet. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/14 "2003-03-27T18:48:25Z")
Unless, of course, he used a [cluster bomb.](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/cluster.htm) With all the talk about smart bombs, people forget that these stil exist and are very efficient at destroying moving columns in the open. Also, there is the [Army’s MLRS](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m270.htm). This system can spread an enourmous number of sub-munitions over a large area. In Desert Storm, Iraqis called it “Steel Rain”. My point is that, asssuming that the A-10 can get airborne and in the area, there are still options. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/15 "2003-03-28T12:44:33Z")
Yeah… that gun is something else. I believe the A-10 was designed around it’s Vulcan cannon - the front landing gear is slightly offset to allow for it. I read somewhere that the control surfaces get locked when the gun is firing, otherwise it would be much harder to keep the plane on target due to recoil. Sounds plausible! ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/16 "2003-03-28T16:28:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nanoda \* > **Yeah… that gun is something else. I believe the A-10 was designed around it’s Vulcan cannon - the front landing gear is slightly offset to allow for it.** In Warhammer 40,000 parlayance, the GAU-8 “Avenger” cannon is known as a “Big Shoota.” Yes, the gun slows the plane down. The recoil is such that while the barrel is actually a few degrees south of the fuselage at rest, it actually pushes back up onto the centerline when firing. I saw some Warthogs demonstrating more dakka\* over Oklahoma (I was in the Wichita Mountains; this was undoubtedly connected with nearby Fort Sill), and it sounded like giant buffalo farts when they cut loose. As to the use of Hellfire missiles instead of the Avenger… against a hard target like a tank, a guided Hellfire (either by laser or the newer millimeter-wave radar) is virtually a guaranteed kill once the target has been identified. Sure, raining 30mm depleted uranium shells on something tends to make for a bad day, but you’re neither guaranteed to hit something vital nor strike the target with a majority of your rounds, which could lead to clouds of dust or smoke that might prevent you from ascertaining that you have indeed destroyed the enemy as you cruise past him. [sub]\* = Shootier guns have more dakka[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-hardy-is-the-a-10/164464/17 "2003-03-28T17:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by psiekier \* > \*_[sub]_ = Shootier guns have more dakka[/sub] \*\* I am shocked and dismayed by the atrocious spelling in this post. That should clearly be gun_ **z** _. 😛 We really need some Orky smilies.