# How has Former President Trump pissed you off today? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640 "2017-01-20T17:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 150
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2982 "2018-01-22T18:40:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m sorry you were forced to admit that you’ve never had a passport, **Starving** , but it seems you don’t need much knowledge or experience to be so very smart about so many things! Congratulations!! > > When I saw this I thought maybe you didn’t know that 100% minus 3% was 97%, but now I see you did that arithmetic correctly in your post. I’m sure it’s unfair to hold you responsible for bullshit from the stupider **Starving** who, once upon a time, thought Trump had an MBA. … But the following was posted by you \*less than a week ago. \* I’ve highlighted the portions you don’t seem to remember. > > Does this jog your recollection? I’ve not heard back from you, **Starving**. You asked me a question; did I give you a satisfactory answer? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2983 "2018-01-22T19:20:37Z")
It’s most amusing how you people scramble to find any little flaw in someone’s argument in an apparent effort to claim that the bigger point being made as to your erroneous statements is therefore rendered moot. Still, in this case, you fail even at that. You might want to revisit my statement as quoted by **tomndebb** : > [@](#): > > And again with respect, but the widely held view that sickening insurance companies are getting rich off the backs of their victims is utterly incorrect. Most insurance companies realize a profit of around 3% on the money they take in vs. pay out in benefits. Cite. So for every one hundred dollars paid into health care in America, only three of it gets kept by the insurance companies, and $97 of it is paid out in service of patient healthcare. So the idea that everyone would be so much better off if only these greedy health insurance companies weren’t profiting on everyone’s illness is a fallacy and nothing much would be gained at all by taking that profit away. Notice I said that 97% of the money that insurance companies take in is paid out ‘in service of patient healthcare’. Naturally employee salaries are included, since without their employees, insurance companies couldn’t function at all and no one would get health care. Ergo, the money spent to pay employees is indeed ‘in service of patient healthcare’. Further, no company I’ve ever heard of includes employees salaries as part of their profit - mainly because it isn’t! So either you all already knew that and were disingenuously attempting to score points based on fallacy in the hope that the thread’s readers would be taken in by it, or you really are just that ignorant as to how business works and how profit is defined. I have no trouble at all believing either. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2984 "2018-01-22T20:00:46Z")
The logic that the employees’ salaries should count as providing care to patients is absurd. Take two companies- Company A spends 80% of revenue on providing health care, 16% on salaries and expenses, and returns 4% profit to shareholders. Company B spends 60% of revenue on providing health care, 37% on salaries and expenses, and returns 3% profit to shareholders. I can’t imagine anyone being foolish enough to think that Company A spends 96% of revenue on health care and that Company B spends 97%. There’s a reason why the ACA mandates 80% of revenues to actually be spent on health care- it’s the measure that matters. The profit is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2985 "2018-01-22T20:10:02Z")
Apart from the fact that most companies pay their employees as little as possible in order to be competitive with other companies and to maximize profits, the original claim was that evil American insurance companies are getting rich at the expense of the sick, when in fact by any standard measure of profitability they are realizing profits less than half of what most companies who make enough profit to stay in business realize. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2986 "2018-01-22T21:06:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > the original claim was that evil American insurance companies are getting rich at the expense of the sick… Was that the claim? I thought the common observation is that here in the US, we spend lots of money on health insurance companies, when that’s pretty much a useless function that they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2987 "2018-01-22T21:32:17Z")
I was responding to the following claim: > [@](#): > > The reality is the US system is completely indefensible from any perspective besides “Making lots of money for someone”. That statement was made by **Martini Enfield** on the U.S. healthcare system. He’s a more civil and polite poster than many here but the sentiment is pretty much the same, which is that American insurance companies are getting rich off of the sick, when the reality is that this is not so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2988 "2018-01-22T21:43:16Z")
The American health care system is screwed up for so many folks because the incentives are all wrong, IMO. For a hard-working middle-class person who gets very sick, the insurance companies are not incentivized to try and give them the best possible care. They’re incentivized to give them the cheapest possible care that still meets their legal obligations. And those obligations might not prevent them from getting through loopholes to screw the patient to the point that his chance of dying goes up, or the family’s chance of going bankrupt goes up. Other systems aren’t perfect either, but at least they can remove or minimize the profit motives. Whatever is most incentivized will be what is maximized – in the US, for most folks’ health care, the insurance company’s profit is what is most incentivized, and not the actual care of most folks. For an alternative I have personal experience with in the US, look at active military health care. There is zero profit motive. It is entirely government run. Every active duty military member and their family gets top notch health care, with very little in the way of unusual waiting times or substandard care, and no chance of health bankruptcy. That doesn’t mean that every government run system will be great, but it means that a government run system is entirely capable of providing excellent health care. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2989 "2018-01-22T21:53:09Z")
Perhaps this is a result of our military budget, which so many Democrats are always looking to cut. For a more realistic view of how government operates outside the realm of active duty military people, take a look at V.A. hospitals and health care, which are widely reviled by those unfortunate enough to have to rely on them. Further, look at Medicare, which, while most of its recipients are happy with it because it’s better than nothing, is still nowhere near on par with the health care active duty military gets. And while we’re on the subject of active duty military expenditures, take a look at how wounded and maimed veterans are treated once they’re out of the military. Take into account also the fact that most of the people in the military are young and in very good health compared with the American population at large. It’s fallacious to look at how the country provides care for its active duty military (which the country depends on for its defense) and extrapolate from that that a government-run nationwide health care system would be similar. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2990 "2018-01-22T22:20:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps this is a result of our military budget, which so many Democrats are always looking to cut. > > For a more realistic view of how government operates outside the realm of active duty military people, take a look at V.A. hospitals and health care, which are widely reviled by those unfortunate enough to have to rely on them. > > Further, look at Medicare, which, while most of its recipients are happy with it because it’s better than nothing, is still nowhere near on par with the health care active duty military gets. > > And while we’re on the subject of active duty military expenditures, take a look at how wounded and maimed veterans are treated once they’re out of the military. > > Take into account also the fact that most of the people in the military are young and in very good health compared with the American population at large. > > It’s fallacious to look at how the country provides care for its active duty military (which the country depends on for its defense) and extrapolate from that that a government-run nationwide health care system would be similar. It’s also fallacious to look at the VA, which largely covers older people who have experienced various forms of trauma and hard-living, and extrapolate that a government run nationwide system would be similar. Rather, both systems show that government run systems can be run well, or run poorly. A well run government system can be better than the current US health care system for most folks. A poorly run government system can be worse. The fact that active military and their families, which include lots of sick kids and others who need lots of care, get great care, demonstrates that government run systems can be successful. Which is all that I’m saying. A government run system, if run well, can work, and it can work better than the current US health care system, for most. If it’s run well. That shouldn’t be a particularly contentious assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2991 "2018-01-22T22:24:58Z")
The trouble is that so few government run systems are run well. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2992 "2018-01-22T22:29:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The trouble is that so few government run systems are run well. Your religion\*'s tenets are unsupported by the facts. \*Right-wingery, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2993 "2018-01-22T22:31:53Z")
It’s rather obvious that **Starving Artist** is seriously trying to derail the thread. Can everyone who wants to discuss American health insurance do that in a new thread and keep this one remotely on topic? Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2994 "2018-01-22T22:40:26Z")
Seconded. This dead horse has been beaten enough. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2995 "2018-01-22T22:40:34Z")
Yeah, damn that **Starving Artist** , always responding to questions and comments directed to him! What’s up with that shit? Make him knock it off! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2996 "2018-01-22T22:49:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … but the sentiment is pretty much the same, which is that American insurance companies are getting rich off of the sick I don’t think “making lots of money for someone” is equal to “insurance companies are getting rich.” Insurance companies employing lots of people, and making a modest profit, is well within the scope of “making lots of money for someone,” especially considering that the someones they’re making money for are in functions that are basically an unneeded middleman. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2997 "2018-01-22T23:15:53Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > It’s rather obvious that **Starving Artist** is seriously trying to derail the thread. … Ya think?? > [@jsc1953](#): > > Seconded. This dead horse has been beaten enough. Let’s bury the nag. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2998 "2018-01-23T19:13:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > For a more realistic view of how government operates outside the realm of active duty military people, take a look at V.A. hospitals and health care, which are widely reviled by those unfortunate enough to have to rely on them. Wrong again. VA patients, both in- and out-patient, report satisfaction quite similar to satisfaction reported by patients of private-sector hospitals. Contrary claims are generated by the _“Make Americans Hate Their Government”_ clique, by exaggerating foibles. Even you would know this, **Starving** , if you learned how to Google (Hint: Don’t include “Tell me what I want to believe” in your search terms), or accessed news sites other than Right\_wing\_idiots\_R\_us.com. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/2999 "2018-01-23T19:46:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Wrong again. VA patients, both in- and out-patient, report satisfaction quite similar to satisfaction reported by patients of private-sector hospitals. > > Contrary claims are generated by the _“Make Americans Hate Their Government”_ clique, by exaggerating foibles. Even you would know this, **Starving** , if you learned how to Google (Hint: Don’t include “Tell me what I want to believe” in your search terms), or accessed news sites other than Right\_wing\_idiots\_R\_us.com. I am quite satisfied with the VA. It’s my only medical care, and except for one time when I had to be transported from Sacramento to San Francisco by ambulance because the local hospital didn’t have the facilities to help me, everything has been great. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/3000 "2018-01-23T21:25:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sure he is not, he just continues to show what a willful ignorant he is when Hillary was not. > > [Bill Maher: She Knew – This is Not Cool](https://climatecrocks.com/2017/05/06/bill-maher-she-knew/) > He is actually deeply involved into shady business. And speaking of an issue like climate change, Trump gave you the big lie that coal declined thanks to Obama. In reality, it was businesses decisions that businessmen made when they looked that natural gas and even some solar or wind energy technologies were cheaper. > > [Natural Gas Ambush Killed Off Coal Mining Industry, Not Obama's 'War on Coal'](http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/11/natural-gas-ambush-killed-off-coal-minin) > Even on that he is as fake as a 3 dollar bill. > > [https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/12/02/trump/UKAzmRHu29q2RdAXar9skJ/story.html](https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/12/02/trump/UKAzmRHu29q2RdAXar9skJ/story.html) > > The fact is that Trump allows us to have evidence to just tell guys like you that you are really dumb. Where some people are concerned or involved, is it simple stupidity, or is it malice? I can’t be sure sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640/3001 "2018-01-23T21:29:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > … Regardless of which party is in charge, don’t you think it’s concerning _the federal government of the world’s pre-eminent first-world country_ can just shut down _on more than one occasion in the past few years_ because it’s metaphorically waiting for a cheque that’s allegedly in the mail? Yes - and it’s unnecessary! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640.md?page=149) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-former-president-trump-pissed-you-off-today/777640.md?page=151)