# How has same sex marriage affected the five countries who have legalized it for a decade or more? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309 "2016-10-12T03:33:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/21 "2016-10-12T13:04:46Z")
John\_Stamos’\_Left\_Ear writes: \> . . . This is a pretty good cross-section . . . Well, in terms of geographic distribution it might be reasonably good, but it’s clearly not remotely a good cross-section in terms of wealth per capita: > **[List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita)** > > A country's gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita is the PPP value of all final goods and services produced within an economy in a given year, divided by the average (or mid-year) population for the same year. This is similar to nominal GDP per capita, but adjusted for the cost of living in each country. > In 2019, the estimated average GDP per capita (PPP) of all of the countries of the world was Int$ 18,381.\[a\] For rankings regarding wealth, see list of co... It’s numbers 11, 20, 21, 31, and 86 in the list in the middle column of that article. So countries which have reasonably well-off citizens tend to be more accepting of diversity in sexuality. This is true of various other ways in which you could measure such things. Look at which countries eliminated laws against homosexuality, which ones passed laws banning discrimination against homosexuals, which ones have homosexuals in major political offices, etc. Yeah, I realize South Africa is an outlier in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/22 "2016-10-12T14:20:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It has had no negative effect on Canada of any sort, as any damn fool should have been able to predict. It has slightly increased tourism in Toronto. > **[National Post](https://nationalpost.com/category/news/)** > > Read the latest breaking news in Canada and the rest of the world. We bring all of today's top headlines and stories to your fingertips. Making our streets slightly more congested. :mad: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/23 "2016-10-12T15:05:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As far as I can tell, Canada is unaffected. > > Further reports on the lack of change will be filed as future developments fail to continue. **Unaffected?!?** Did you know that _ **not one** _ of those heathen Canadians plans to vote for Donald Trump in the upcoming elections? NOT ONE!!! “Unaffected”. Hurumph. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/24 "2016-10-12T15:15:00Z")
Bill Murray called it in Ghostbusters. Just look at [the horrible consequences](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ec/d8/ab/ecd8ab457ffd831cc61cc6e317826d87.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/25 "2016-10-12T15:41:31Z")
Never heard of ANY of those countries. My guess is that SSM made them dissolve entirely. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/26 "2016-10-12T15:44:23Z")
> [@RenaissanceMan203](#): > > Marriage is a private religious matter, Religion had nothing to do with my marriage, nor my divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/27 "2016-10-12T15:58:52Z")
[Dutch here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_Netherlands) Apocalyse hasn’t knocked. Yet. What we do see are slightly more marriages, which is good business for florists and cake-bakers. In 1990, there were one or two civils servants who said they would not perform such a ceremony. That problem has disappeared. I guess if they still feel that way, they just ask to perform other ceremonies. We also saw some high-profile gay male marriages. Our ex-mayor, for instance, is married to a celebrity gossip TV personality. That’s a lot of power in one union. Before SSM was legal, there was about five years where a temporary form of it was instituted. [Registered partnership](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union)s, they were called, and they were open to all couples. Now that full fledged SSM is legal, you’d think that the registered partnerships would go the way of the dodo. But they still exist, and about half of them are chosen by opposite sex couples. They feel it is less final and binding then marriage, somehow. I have such an registered partnership with my husband. We also went to the notary and prenupped and willed everything down, so it’s binding as shit. My main reason for not gettign married was that I didn’t feel well at the time, and did not feel like celebrating big. If we did this small thing now, the paperwork would be in order and we could always still get married at a later time, if we felt like it. ( we haven’t 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/28 "2016-10-12T16:07:15Z")
Oh, and Dutch gay marriage has also led to more Dutch same-sex couples [adopting African- American children from the US](http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/world/international-adoption-us-children-adopted-abroad/). > [@](#): > > United States is one of the few countries from which gays and lesbians can adopt, and many U.S.-born children sent to the Netherlands have been adopted by same-sex families, according to Anneke Vinke, a Dutch adoption expert at the University of Leiden. In the last five years, 17% of the U.S. children that Goldstein helped to place with foreign families were adopted by gay couples. > “Bluntly, the U.S. is probably the only country that will allow a gay couple to adopt a child,” Goldstein said, adding that some states allow couples, gay or straight, to adopt whether they’re married or not. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/29 "2016-10-12T16:55:07Z")
> [@RenaissanceMan203](#): > > Marriage is a private religious matter, so I don’t see why the State would have any interest in two parties making a religious commitment to one another. Try claiming the wrong but advantageous to you filing status on your 1040, and then tell the Auditor “Marriage is a private religious matter,”. When you die, I suppose then you dont want your spouse to get the benefits of being a spouse, as regards inheritances, survivors benefits, etc? You want just anyone to have the right to pull the plug when you are brain dead but being kept alive only by artificial means? And so forth. So, very very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/30 "2016-10-12T17:00:06Z")
Considering the way some (most?) religions have treated gay couples, I say religion should stay out of it. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/31 "2016-10-12T17:14:27Z")
[Data](http://sustaindemographicdividend.org/articles/international-family-indicators/global-childrens-trends)is a little hard to come by, but it seems every nation you listed has seen an increase in the rate of out of wedlock children. That is what most of us anti-gay marriage people thought would happen and it seems we have been proved right. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/32 "2016-10-12T17:32:32Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Data](http://sustaindemographicdividend.org/articles/international-family-indicators/global-childrens-trends)is a little hard to come by, but it seems every nation you listed has seen an increase in the rate of out of wedlock children. That is what most of us anti-gay marriage people thought would happen and it seems we have been proved right. Where in that study is gay marriage given as a possible, let alone probable, cause? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/33 "2016-10-12T17:36:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where in that study is gay marriage given as a possible, let alone probable, cause? Heh, don’t you know correlation = causation? Stands to reason. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/34 "2016-10-12T17:55:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Data](http://sustaindemographicdividend.org/articles/international-family-indicators/global-childrens-trends)is a little hard to come by, but it seems every nation you listed has seen an increase in the rate of out of wedlock children. That is what most of us anti-gay marriage people thought would happen and it seems we have been proved right. You have a very generous definition of “proved”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/35 "2016-10-12T18:17:34Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Data](http://sustaindemographicdividend.org/articles/international-family-indicators/global-childrens-trends)is a little hard to come by, but it seems every nation you listed has seen an increase in the rate of out of wedlock children. That is what most of us anti-gay marriage people thought would happen and it seems we have been proved right. Maybe I’m missing something, but how in the world does legalizing the ability for two same-sex people to marry somehow translate into more heterosexual people having out of wedlock children? They seem like totally and utterly unrelated things. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/36 "2016-10-12T18:24:17Z")
Besides being illogical, I don’t recall _anyone_ claiming that SSM would result in more illegitimate births. Can the OP provide a site that argued this back in the day? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/37 "2016-10-12T18:30:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Besides being illogical, I don’t recall _anyone_ claiming that SSM would result in more illegitimate births. > > Can the OP provide a site that argued this back in the day? There’s a link in the OP to that already. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/38 "2016-10-12T18:35:56Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Plus, South Africa has introduced legal recognition of polygamous marriages. . . . Cool! I had not known that! That’s particularly good, because, when the U.S. finally dares to look into this, there will be an existing body of law that we can look at for guidance. (Why make up something completely new when you can just copy another guy’s notes?) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/39 "2016-10-12T18:41:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Data](http://sustaindemographicdividend.org/articles/international-family-indicators/global-childrens-trends)is a little hard to come by, but it seems every nation you listed has seen an increase in the rate of out of wedlock children. That is what most of us anti-gay marriage people thought would happen and it seems we have been proved right. > **[stats.pdf](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/fl-lf/famil/stat2000/pdf/stats.pdf)** > > 126.01 KB Figure 3, which compares birth cohorts up to 1993, effectively demolishes your argument. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/40 "2016-10-12T19:14:01Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Data](http://sustaindemographicdividend.org/articles/international-family-indicators/global-childrens-trends)is a little hard to come by, but it seems every nation you listed has seen an increase in the rate of out of wedlock children. That is what most of us anti-gay marriage people thought would happen and it seems we have been proved right. Inasmuch as it seems like a really weird thing to ascribe to gay marriage, I’d like to see evidence you wrote that gay marriage would result in more children born out of wedlock. And frankly, I can see no evidence at all of your claim being true. None. Children born out of wedlock are on the rise in Western countries that HAVEN’T had gay marriage for ten years, too. If gay marriage was the cause of this, that would not be the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309.md?page=3)